I feel there's more logical approaches rather than reworking an entire class to be something it isn't; If I wanted to play Dirty Bomb I'd be playing Dirty bomb, not IronSight. If snipers 2-shot to the body there'd be no point in using bolt-action rifles anymore because Semi-automatic scopes would offer the same results and more.
Dirty Bomb and Ironsight are both different games, so let's try to keep it that way.
Because, as I said, the maps in Ironsight are more open and less prone to flanking. Meaning the targets are largely exposed, meaning it's not unreasonable to expect them to have to aim for the head if the snipers were more accurate like the other poster said. That, or, keep the damage as it is but increase the sway. I wouldn't mind either.
The maps in this game aren't great and flanking is an issue which is unfortunate but it may be better to focus on making better maps in the future rather than making a major change because of it. Increasing the sway is a change I wouldn't mind and would make more sense for a game like this, along with a movement penalty that has been suggested here and in other threads.
There's are objectives in this game too. TDM isn't the only mode. The map design combined with the sniper rifles make locking down paths very easy. Hence my dissatisfaction. TDM is a frustration/feels cheap but who cares, it's TDM.
I understand that there are other modes with objectives but secure point is basically glorified TDM for some and S&D is the only real objective mode in this game at the current moment which doesn't play anything like the ones in other class based games. I'm not going to get into resource takeover or whatever it's called because I do not play it.
I'm sorry you're taking this so personally but there's no need for such an aggressive defense. You like sniping, I get it, I like it too. I just don't want the game I enjoy permanently turning into the screenshot I posted earlier on in this thread.
I'm not taking this personally; Though I'll apologize because that was a bit rude of me. However what I said in my disclaimer wasn't directed at anyone here but as a reminder that some people (It's happened on this forum) do have ill intentions and want the next best thing to removing snipers. I've had experiences with this in other games where an uninformed majority complained enough that endless waves of nerf hit the same group of weapons every patch and I just want to avoid that happening here too. There's no worse feeling than losing something you enjoy doing.
Responding to your earlier point of other games having the same system (one hit kill to the chest), you're right they do. I don't remember any of these games being as easy to snipe in, however. They all had some sort of penalty or another, be it the sway or movement penalty or what. None of which is notable in this game.
I would love for sniping to be harder in this game just as much as you because I enjoyed sniping in a few of those games quite a lot, however it really does need to be done with care because of what I stated before. I'm just a little worried it might end up taking a bad turn.
I don't see how the genre of these games has any bearing on the snipers in Ironsight. Dirty Bomb was raised as an example because it's a game where movement is twice as fast as Ironsight, with much tighter hitboxes and much better map design allowing people to flank snipers much more easily than in this game.
Dirty Bomb was also designed with this mechanic in mind while Ironsight was not, as you said they had much better map design so I don't see how you expect snipers to play like the ones in Dirty Bomb. Again, doesn't sound like an issue with snipers but the game itself the way you're explaining it.
Yeah, and snipers are meant for sniping I thought. Remove the sway completely like Cyoce said and it's perfectly viable to expect a player to use their superaccuraterifle to aim for the head, or twice at the large, slow moving mass. AR's and SMG's should have the advantage at close-mid range, that's literally their purpose.
So you want snipers to be limited to camping 2~3 spots because the other 75% of the map is CQC, because the game is designed around being fast-paced with quick engagements and not with this in mind. The reason this works in Dirty Bomb and other class based shooters is because there's an objective that funnels people into a point of interest generally with a line of sight and ways to get behind it. Not to mention that if the hit-boxes aren't tight and clunky you said, that's going to make going for head shots even worse.
I'm not even going to reply to that last bit because the point seems to have gone over your head.
Doesn't sound like an issue with snipers, sounds like an issue with the time to kill.
It's interesting how the advocates for not nerfing sniper rifles gloss over the one shot headshot bit and go straight to how underpowered it is to kill someone in to bodyshots. It's almost like they want to keep abusing their no skill weapon or something.
I was waiting for someone to point this out so I could have a reason to go over it; So let's begin on why this wouldn't fit into the game.
Let's start with an example that was brought up earlier in this thread with a game that does the 1-hit head shot 2-hit body shot well -- Dirty Bomb. Dirty Bomb is a tactical class-based First person shooter with large, open maps with long lines of sight and very fast-paced game-play involving team based objective play. There's a lot of different characters in the game and each character is limited by load out cards, meaning it's much easier to balance what advantages (and disadvantages) a class can have. Sniping in Dirty Bomb makes sense, but let's compare that to Ironsight.
Ironsight is a fast-paced arcade-y run of the mill military shooter with small maps that have very few lines of sight. Team play isn't necessary and objective play is non existent if you choose to play TDM, and even when it's involved the rounds tend to be over very quickly. Players are able to create custom load outs to fit their liking only limited by the choices they have to make, which means there's a ton possibilities and combinations making balance incredibly difficult. Changing one thing could break countless weapons while making others unplayable.
There seems to be some very large differences between both games, but let's look at some other games that have done the 1-hit head shot 2-hit body shot well; Team Fortress 2 and Overwatch. If you've heard and/or played both or even all three of these games you'd know they all share something in common -- They're all classed based shooters.
I haven't ran into a single Military shooter that had fast-paced game-play with small maps that didn't allow snipers to 1-shot to the body and I can list a few of them here. Alliance of Valiant arms (Aeria run at one point), Black Squad, Combat Arms, Crossfire, Counter strike, Line of Sight, A lot of the CoD series, and so many more. The formula hasn't changed and that's probably because it works.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying snipers should never be tweaked, there's some things people have suggested in the past that I'd be all for but it has to be done within reason or it's going to be another instance where we go beyond fixing it and instead ruin the class for the people that enjoy it. A lot of people here seem to have ill intentions rather than actually wanting to make the game better and fun for everyone, and it's quite upsetting to see. If you're going to suggest nerfs, at least try to understand both sides of the spectrum -- Though I personally suggest if you haven't already to try sniping for more than one match, rather than just screaming OP because someone quick-scoped you once or twice.
Nothing in this game is difficult to do; Anyone can pick up anything and do well within reason and I think that's what the game's trying to achieve being a very casual shooter.
Scopes are in a good place where they're at now, the TTK just needs to be lowered for other weapons by a bullet or two and this issue would be solved. I'm not going to get into just how terrible riffling in this game is because this isn't the thread to do it but I can attest that if scopes get nerfed they're going to be non-existent aside from people sitting in corners pre-scoping.
Only needing to repair the gun once after a long period of time would make sense if the repair cost was static which I don't think it is, meaning the longer you wait to repair the more it's going to cost. Regardless if it were a set price or not, you're always going to run into the same issue where it feels like the player never truly owns the weapon but is instead renting it because there's always going to be some form of payment afterwards.
It doesn't have a place in-game outside of being a gimmick to take away currency from players, and not a very good one at that. Players are going to amass riches regardless of whether or not this system is in place unless it's outrageously expensive to the point players lose money for using all of their arsenal; Which would be very unhealthy for a game that relies on it's weaponry.
For convenience sake it would improve the game quite a bit and many have said that if they're going to remove it they should also lower the gold to compensate, so the game's economy would stay the same.
I actually really liked the Korean AvA ranks more than the NA/EU ones, but it's for an entirely different reason that doesn't apply here (They were more vibrant in color and looked more appealing because of it). That's all I really have to add other than that I don't really mind either, though I would kinda prefer the Korean ones just for a change. It's such a small detail that it doesn't matter too much though.
I wouldn't mind them just making up their own ranks either, that could be really cool too.
I think the game is balanced enough that skill will win a majority of the time, regardless of how kitted out people are. Maybe a week is asking a bit much, but 3~4 days seems like a good middle ground. I'm not someone who payed so it's not really a big deal to me, but keeping those who did happy is also important.
I don't really see how that would be any different from joining an FPS game that has already been out for a while.
I feel bad for them because 2 days really isn't that long in my opinion, but that's also coming from someone where 20$ is a big deal. I thought that maybe they would've gotten a week at most.
On one hand I get pretty tired of seeing the same drones being used in-game, but on the other scrims aren't like pubs at all and players will more than likely put more thought and strategy into what they take in-game to counter the things they have trouble with. It really is a big part of the game and it can add a lot more depth and personality to the players playing and what their role on the team is.
The game is still pretty young and it's not like things can't be adjusted in the future; We'll just have to wait and see how the meta develops and go from there.
Feel a little bad for those that threw money at the founder packs but I guess they get a ton of other benefits anyway. It's nice having a set date now! Might be time to try and get more involved with the community.
Dailies are nice but I don't really feel like they'll sustain the player in the long run unless they only play to complete them. I wouldn't mind them having stages like the achievements though, that give more gold each stage you complete up to a maximum of 3 stages (If they didn't already, haven't played in a while). However I don't feel dailies should be a mandatory thing to play the game and instead be a bonus you choose to go for.
I feel like it'd be easier to reduce repair costs and increase the amount of gold gotten at the end of each game rather than going through a complex process of adding subscriptions which only band-aids the situation by catering to paying players and leaves players that don't want to or can't pay out to dry. If a system like this were to be implemented, there are a lot better ways to go about it that benefit both the players and the company running the game without the need of a subscription based system that quite honestly would turn a lot of players (including myself) away from the game.
It's simple; Make every weapon purchased with the paid currency permanent without needing to be repaired. Players get all the really cool skins and weapons they want without the hassle of needing to constantly spend their free currency on upkeep while the Developers still get a nice chunk of in-come. This also benefits the players who can only make a purchase every once and a while or only want to make a one-time purchase only, without the unnecessary worry that it'll eventually run out and leave them in a state where they can't play without it.
Subscription models are a thing of the past, or at least I would like to think they are. I wouldn't mind a service that people can pay a small fee for and get boosts in experience or currency, but I feel it should be limited to things of that category.
I don't see how they could be more transparent than they already are; Especially about something like OBT when they more than likely are trying to fix bugs while potentially making adjustments to how the game plays from player feedback. I'm happy with the approach they're taking because instead of rushing the game out the door by having a deadline they have to meet they're instead taking their time -- I'd rather wait for a game that's optimized rather than one that's a buggy mess.
There's other things they have to consider too; Such as how long the Early Access period will be for package buyers before releasing for everyone and making sure that these players get their items accordingly. These things take time, all we can do is be patient.
It's a currency sink but I don't really see it as necessary if currency only stays within our accounts. If there was an economy between players via trading, then things like inflation would be a lot more concerning and sinks (probably through gambling) would be a lot more desirable. There's already enough things to keep players occupied with their money though such as repairing weapons, let alone buying everything for those completionist out there.
The only other thing I can see a currency sink used for is to keep players playing the game, but there's already enough achievements and challenges in the game to keep you occupied for quite a while.
Didn't play during the Tech Test and honestly wanted it to end as soon as possible, but only because I want Open Beta to begin so we can finally keep our progress. Eagerly waiting now, though unfortunately I don't have one of the packs so I'll be waiting a bit longer than others.
If the enemy team has a UAV jammer up, trying to use your UAV will put it on "Wait" and won't pop until either the enemy jammer runs out or is destroyed. The contrary to this is that I think if your team has a UAV jammer already going it'll put yours on wait as well, but this is a lot harder to tell/notice so I'm not entirely sure about this one.
Might explain why you have to use your LAWS before they unlock, unless you're describing a different problem and I'm just not understanding very well.
They don't even need to add a helmet feature, just make head shots one hit depending on the range and the weapon. That way people are actually rewarded for going for head shots instead of spraying.
They probably shouldn't either way because it'd be easier to just tune the multipliers for the weapons to 1~2 hits depending on power and the range it's at, achieving a similar effect as you said; Maybe excluding pistols that might be 3 unless they're extremely high powered like a Deagle or Revolver. I was just a bit reminiscent, as it was the only FPS I've seen that's done this but it worked there but probably wouldn't here just due to it being a different game entirely.
or you lose your helmet assuming they add something of that nature.
There was a mechanic like this in AvA (Alliance of Valiant arms) which Aeria had previously took over publishing (No longer though, as of recent) where getting shot in the head dropped your helmet and then anything could 1-shot with a head shot if the gun wasn't already powerful enough to one shot (Like the AK-12 for example). The only exception to this was scopes who had no helmet, which really helped with balancing them.
I really liked this mechanic and felt like it worked pretty well and was really rewarding for players who took the time to aim; I would really enjoy it if they did something like this again.
Tell me why? Oh wait you are playing sniper and you think one shot hip fire and easy quickscope kills are fair. Make sense, yes. Why a sniper need a secondary like pumpgun or pistol for close combat when he can use his op weapon, right?
When you pick a scope and actually give me evidence that you have, I'll start taking you a little more seriously but for the most part your opinion has little to no value.
I don't want to be the one who think he is a skilled player because he can kill someone over the whole map who can't do anything by pressing one Button. Sorry I don't have these unbelievable Skill-Level and I don't want to get it. It is a question of Honor for me. I am not the guy who likes abusing metas.
I do A lot better running around with a riffle and can clean rooms up to 3~4 people quicker than I can with a scope; It's not hard to spray from the hip or press right and left click. The only reason you don't want to use a scope is because you don't want to be proven wrong so you can keep trying to suppress other's opinions, like you've been doing this entire thread.
One day there will be a balancing-patch and I will come back to this thread and will write "I told you so but nice try, guys"
We'll adapt and get used to it, find new ways to quick-scope and you'll be right back on the forums spewing the same hate. It happens on literally every other game that's similar to this one and this is exactly why scopes get slammed patch after patch; People who are misinformed, refuse to try it, and just complain without giving any real evidence or proof that snipers are broken other than just saying they are because they died a few times.
QuoteA SR shouldnt be a top tier weapon for Close combat.
It's not but I've already figured out that there's no point trying to argue with a brick wall -- This'll be my last post towards you until you do some research.
I went and played with the riffles for a bit and I honestly feel that it's not the SRs being broken but the riffles and SMG needing a small tweak. The accuracy when aiming down sights could be improved slightly and reducing the damage drop off would help since it seems to happen really quickly. Though it could also just be me having terrible accuracy and micro-correction I'm still getting used to a new mouse so take this with a grain of salt.
I would love this for all the game-modes honestly, or at least TDM and SnD. It got pretty frustrating in closed beta when all you would ever see was Zeus after Hell bird After Metal reaper.. At least it's not like that right now but I fear it'll run into that state again in due time whenever open beta rolls around, which'll hopefully be soon!
I should really start using the LAWS..
QuotePeople on these topic (me included) made good suggestions how to nerf these weapons so they will be strong in same way but wouldn't be playable anymore like a rushing SMG class.
You mean the people that probably haven't touched a scope in this game for more than 2~3 matches and refuse to try them after being told too, and thus probably know little to nothing about the class of weapons outside of being killed by them? Yeah, that sure sounds reasonable. We should definitely ignore the people who put A lot of time into this class of weapons in this and other games, because they're the ones that don't know the weapon like the back of their hand.
I'm not even going to bother to pick apart why your new suggestion is a terrible idea, someone else will probably do it anyway.
Unfortunately A lot of people are going to have "issues" with snipers until they're removed from the game -- If they do get nerfed, no matter how hard or terrible they might be after it -- People are still going to complain. Go ahead and nerf them, people will just start using auto snipers then until you nerf those too which can do a ton more damage than someone just quick-scoping. It's not like snipers already get shafted in every other game anyway so why should this one be any different?
Also just because someone has different tastes doesn't make them elitist; I'm pretty sure you'd be here defending your favorite weapons too if people were complaining about them. A movement penalty is fine but anything more than that and you're destroying almost any viability the weapon had, though it wouldn't stop people from adapting and still getting one-shot as you turn the corner. All you'd really be doing is making players play more passive in an aggressive fast-paced shooter.
The DSR is much slower than the Blazer but it is more powerful compared to it -- It can one-shot in the chest and (From my experiences at least) seems to also one-shot in the lower body while the Blazer is only the chest and higher. Both of these scopes have their strengths and weaknesses but people seem to ignore them and refuse to acknowledge anyone telling them otherwise.
The DSR is incredibly slow. ADS'ing takes ages even with the perk that makes you ADS faster; Anyone with decent aim -- Assuming you aren't peaking angles Snipers are holding, because you know that's what scopes are best at -- then you should have no trouble killing or at least trading kills with someone who is using the DSR. If they're utilizing cover at range? It's simple, really: Don't engage them. If a scope is holding an angle: Either utilize your tactical grenades, risk peaking and pre-firing them, or just find another way to go or wait them out.
There's also things that people can do with generic weapons that scopes can't: Bunny hopping around corners and spraying and drop-shots. A majority of the time a scope is either gonna miss you entirely or hit you in the legs. If they still manage to kill you then it's your own fault, not the weapon's. You can also go in groups because a majority of the time (If your teammates have half-way decent aim) a scope will only be able to finish one of you off with a DSR or if they don't tag with the Blazer maybe two.
Speaking of the Blazer -- With how the hit boxes are when sprinting, this thing tags like hell. You really have to be quick and precise to make sure that you hit them in the upper chest or else 50% or more of your shots are going to tag. Sure it's pretty fast in terms of scope-in speed and fire-rate, but without really good aim (especially when quick-scoping) this weapon can get frustrating quickly.
Now let's talk about cover -- Everyone uses it, you should too. It's just as difficult for a sniper to hit you in the head while being sprayed at as it is for you to do the same. Good scopes will weave in and out of cover while they're quick-switching to stay safe. If you're against someone who's using a DSR it's extremely easy to get up close while they're readying their next shot. If they're using a Blazer you can probably just keep firing in their path and they'll either be forced to walk into your line of fire and risk dying or have you push them in.
Also, maybe remember that people have headsets and don't sprint everywhere. Sounding is an incredibly useful tool especially for scopes, kind of difficult to flank someone when they can hear you from a mile away. Not to mention you also have score-streaks that can deny information: Mainly the Radar-jamming ones because most scopes (or least me in this case) use UAV/Spy-drones to know where everyone is at all times. There are other streaks you can use as well like Escort drone or Metal reaper, as scopes have the hardest time dealing with these head on.
Lastly I wonder how many people complaining here have actually went out and played with the two SR in the game -- And don't just say you have, record yourself and show me proof of why they're so broken if literally anyone can pick them up and do good.
when you are in a TDM and every one is running sniper BUT YOU and your geting 1 shot killed turning a corner. the gun is OP and the meta.
Is everyone running a sniper, or is it that you only remember the times you were killed by a scope? In all the games that I've played it's incredibly rare to see someone else sniping, so where's your proof?
the point of a sniper IN ANY game is to be the one at the back of the team giveing them over watch and covering there backs while there in there doing the dirty work. this also goes for Real Life snipers.
Realism would kill this game faster than you can type it's name out because it's an "Arcade" Shooter and not a simulator. If you don't know what either of those mean I suggest you do your research. The maps are too small and the game is too fast passed to have snipers "sitting in the back". Accept the fact that Quick-Scoping in these games are a key element to game-play just like how it is to hold W and Left click with a rifle.
Quotei tryed it and and saw that it was a cowereds way to play this game. it took little to no skill to quick scope someone or to one shot kill them. it was a waist of my enjoyment and it took away from the game its self. it made this game WORSE and made me not want to play it anymore.
Sorry to burst your bubble but this game takes very little to no skill to begin with; It's a very casual game that's purpose is for you to kill some time or hop in for a few quick matches. This isn't CS:GO and stop trying to make it sound that way.
Pretty sure the current meta is AK or Vector > Everything else, because that's generally all I ever see in-game because they're basically snipers that can shoot faster with their ridiculous accuracy. I rarely see anyone else sniping in game and even if I do, they're not the ones dropping 40+ kills a game.
Yeah you're right, snipers are so broken! That's why we see them running around getting quad highlights by holding left click without even needing to ADS in one magazine.
I have a question for you, have you even tried sniping in this game before? If not, I recommend you try it. I personally think the snipers could use a movement penalty, but anything else is overdoing it and just making the weapon useless.
I've primarily scoped in this closed beta and can say that yes, snipers need a bit of tweaking but they're no where near a problem as everyone thinks they are. Lowering the accuracy while you're getting shot will make snipers near useless considering how arcade-y and fast-paced this game is; However lowering the accuracy while moving would easily separate the players who are skilled from the ones who have no idea what they're doing.
This balancing method is used in other games and seems to be A popular way to make snipers good but give people (with good aim) a chance against them. Snipers will have to become stationary while ADS'ing making it easier for anyone to spray them down, especially in medium to close ranges.
Aside from balancing, there's plenty of ways to deal with someone who's scoping and I'll list them accordingly from my own experiences within the game.
1. Tactical grenades. You have them, use them.
If you know a sniper is going to come around the corner or where they're positioned, A well placed Flash/Shock grenade will make it near impossible for a scope to tell where you are and aim accordingly. I personally recommend flashes because it completely disrupts vision and incapacitates snipers for a short period of time but Shock grenades work too. Just keep in mind it's still possible to scope through them though, as it only blurs vision after the short flash.
2. Score-Streaks. We all have them, but some make Scoping hell.
There are plenty of options you could go for here from just knowing where they are (UAV, Spy drone, Stalker) to increasing your damage output or out right killing them (Escort Drone, Crawler). We'll start with the offensive drones first and then move onto the defensive ones.
Escort Drones are a real pain because a majority of the time even if a scope is able to kill you, they're still likely to die if you put enough bullets into them because your drone will finish them off. This also increases your time to kill under the assumption that your drone is targeting the same person you are, which could give you that extra bit you need to finish them off before they can fire their first bullet. I personally recommend this.
Crawler's are a bit more situational but still work just as a well. If a scope is holding an angle and you don't wanna risk peaking them, tossing a Crawler around the corner should do the job just fine. These things are incredibly difficult to snipe or even pistol as they're really small and you often wouldn't notice them being tossed if you're hard-scoping. They're also pretty good at clearing points and small rooms.
Now onto the more defensive, more support like streaks. The UAV, Spy drone, and Stalker all accomplish the same goal; Showing you where your enemy is so you can get the jump on them easily. The best thing you can do against a Scope is pre-fire them as you're coming around a corner, as they'll have to react quicker in order to kill you as you're already unloading bullets into them. It is incredibly important to memorize the map and how it's laid out as crosshair placement is crucial to succeeding; You aren't going to do much damage if you aren't hitting them in the chest or head.
Gorgon System is probably one of the most annoying score streaks for a scope to deal with as it blinds them making it difficult to impossible to spot enemies. A well placed Gorgon System can easily nullify any presence a Scope might've had especially if it's used to defend a point or to nullify a popular line of sight. Not very many people use it and I personally don't recommend it for anything except secure point; The spawns flip so often and unless your team is coordinated enough not to flip the spawns, this'll basically become useless when it's on the enemies side instead of yours.
Just a quick note on support streaks: I would only really recommend the Spy drone as your option for seeking out enemies. While UAVs cover the entire map and help your team immensely, they're also easily destroyed by anyone willing to shoot at them with a riffle or destroyed near instantly with if the enemy team has a LAWS up.
Lastly, USE YOUR SIGHTS! I CANNOT stress this enough because Hip Firing, while accurate in this game, is still incredibly unreliable. If you're not aiming down your sights and are instead spraying there's a much higher chance your bullets 1. Miss or 2. Do less damage by hitting the arms or legs. Every shot counts and you'll have a much easier time dealing with scopes this way, especially if they miss their first shot. If a scope can take more than 1 shot at you, then you are the problem and not the person scoping.
There are other things I haven't mentioned that should be common sense, such as engaging in your gun's respective range and waiting for a Scope to fire their first shot and then peak them while they're quick switching. There's also a couple tactics that I consider incredibly cheap that ruin the fun of the game that you could use against anyone such as going prone while spraying or bunny-hopping (Though in my opinion if you do this, you're just saying to everyone that you're incompetent).
Anyway, that's about all I can really say from my own personally experiences. Hopefully this helps for the final hours of the Closed Beta and hopefully in the near future if the game has an Open Beta. (Considering things don't change too much).
