I'm glad to see the conversation about drones opened up a bit. There are already some interesting ideas!
We are listening. That's why the tournament will be a no-drone one.
And about being informed/asking for info: I agree we could've done better in this, but we wanted to act on the most recent feedback.
I'm quoting people, but my questions are for everyone of course.
Realistically though, the main reason for the 'ban everything' approach is the belief that, at least in tournament play, the outcome should be dictated, as far as possible, purely by the mechanical skill, reactions, and situational awareness of the players.
If it can get you outcomes that aren't a direct result of your own skill, reactions and awareness then it shouldn't exist in that setting.
I don't see how most, if any, of the drones fit with that ideology.
In order to have drones at all, you'd probably need teams to agree beforehand a single drone loadout that was acceptable to both teams for all players. That way you at least ensure equality of arms.
By a single drone loadout, do you mean that a pre-set loadout is established (agreed by both teams) and they don't go out of this set up?
How should the establishment happen in this case?
Tournament rules dictate it and that's all? Teams decide and present it to each other?
1. people should just take uav recon or uav jammer so there s no variety due to this meta. 2. where we find peoples to play tournament if can't play a single match in some modes for half hour?
I'm sorry but can't be optimistic, the game is dead asf in EU so yeah, maybe just talk for NA bcs EU is dead-
But what if there is a restriction on how many uav/jammers you can get? Then you need to use your slots for other things.
About populating the game further... wait for it : )
We also have some plans on how to make ranked more popular.
Drones are dumb.
Your 'Hypothetical' was probably including the thoughts of casual players. I've played competitive game modes in multiple games and drones were banned / not used or a very limited set,
Also, not many competitive games have score streaks, more over kill streaks.
Score streaks don't require any skill whatsoever. The baddest person on the team could accumulate a hellbird or w/e by grabbing a few kills and camping points.
Score streaks per person is a dumb idea.
The only score streaks feasible imo is: UAV - Counter and Lightning strike, w/e it's called ing. I'd much prefer to see killstreaks implemented into competitive.
It should be down to the players to come up with a baseline of rules and then edited as the needs go on. Something like the 'eSports' mode from ghosts would be good.
Then again, the community isn't really listened to so what even is the point of 'your ideas?' You could probably lose a competitive game but as long as you draw a pwetty picture you could probably gain a win and a 50 chip box.
We do listen to the community, but the reaction times might be improved.
And about baseline of rules, this is pretty much what this thread is for: Instead of dictating rules, we are asking the community.
And again: What if UAV is restricted to a certain amount?
For the sake of this thread, let's not worry about enforcing or clarity or the ban-everything option.
There are reasons that drones are not working for everyone. So I'd like to see how *you* would change things to make it work.
I'd rather have focus on the kind of rules I mentioned, but I'd be okay with hearing other feedback as well. I'd like to understand this topic better.
While we know that they aren't everyone's favorite in the competitive environment, we think they can be interesting.
Now, just today we were talking about a small, itsy-bitsy, and completely HYPOTHETICAL tournament and deciding the rules for that.
Of course, drones came up. Instead of thinking binary, we decided to take a different approach.
What if we banned some drones? What if we drafted them?
To be clear: We are simply talking about this ENTIRE HYPOTHETICAL tournament that we are definitely not working on at the moment.
(Don't keep your eyes peeled for news, you'll waste your time!)
This is not changing game rules, this is not the content of the next patch etc.
Just rules that would be enforced by a tournament & referees.
That said, we would of course share the feedback with Wiple if we see good ideas.
I'll start with a rough draft we had.
Drones over 3000 points = banned
Each person can use 1 drone per match.
Each drone is decided before the game, declared one by one, team by team, as in:
Team 1 Member 1: I choose x
Team 2 Member 1: I choose y
Team 3 Member 2: I choose z
... and so on
Max 2 (any) Jammers per team
Max 1 UAV Recon per team
Same drone can be selected by multiple players
Idea here is to remove the "super weapons", provide some strategic capacity to counter via taking turns and restricting drones.
So, what do you think about this idea?
What rules would you set up?
Let us know in the comments and don't forget to subs- wait, wrong media. Just drop the comments!
PS: inb4 how about no drones
Hello, just dropping another quick comment.
This isn't being ignored/forgotten. I've been sick for a long while unfortunately.
And I want to emphasize: We aren't relying on these sort of tournaments for the competitive scene. These are not our only plans.
We merely want to support such tournaments as they are/will be happening.
A few more comments on my side.
First of all, if you haven't already, please fill in this survey. Even if you make your "wordy" comments on the forums, it's good for us to see the answers to the statistical questions.
Second, it's really tricky to talk about this topic as anything we say (regardless of the intent) can be misinterpreted very easily (not talking about consciously twisting the words, although that might also happen.) However, I hope that we established a basic level of trust overall and make a few comments.
Are we satisfied with our boxes and overall sales? No.
Do we think things should change? Yes.
Are we working on it? Yes.
Do we have a magical idea we can implement overnight? No.
Is there a magical idea that the whole community will be happy with? To the contrary belief, no.
And this is one of the main reasons for our web shop, comments on this thread and the survey. We are exploring.
For the game shop, we are already talking with Wiple about improvements.
On the web shop, we try to provide alternatives to what you have in game, or provide you with some kind of "advantage."
Honestly, I'm hesitant to talk details on this (due to what I said earlier,) but let me give a couple examples:
Paying AP for Uncommon weapons: Yes, they are available for GP, but there may be (there are) people who has less time to play and would like to use their GP for something else. It's a trade between grinding and AP.
Special Skin Crates: In the game, there is usually a pool of items in the boxes. In these crates, you know what you get if you are lucky so you can only try them if it's an item you want.
In coming days, we will have more grind vs AP offers as we feel this is a fair exchange.
Obviously not everything will be attractive to everyone. What we would aim to achieve is not that, but to have something attractive for everyone.
Nothing is set in stone and we'd like to improve things. So please provide us (keep providing us) feedback and help us make the decisions that are the best for everyone.
My nerd part loves to see math being discussed, but let me clear it out: Each box has an equal chance to appear in the Contraband Crate.
Hello, leaving two comments quickly.
1) Please try and ignore distruptive people, our moderators/CMs will take care of them.
2) What I mentioned above is not our only plans for esports/competitive (far from it.)
Looking forward to hearing all the input regarding competitive play/scene.
There is a topic I'd like to drop a specific note on: Community Tournaments.
It's a topic I've wanted to make progress on and communicate about, but simply didn't have time to (due to patches etc taking priority.)
TL;DR: You'll hear about it, I promise. But the less you wait for us and the more things you do by yourself, the more likely it is that you are getting support. Start organizing some! Also, feedback on the topic here.
When we were first approached by the tournament makers some weeks ago, I asked CM team to keep in touch, but also wanted to lay down some guidelines. Since then, I've dropped replies on forums, talked about it in HQ Reports... And our main standing is the same. We have three main criterias:
1. Self-motivated Productivity: This means that we prefer someone who already works on a tournament for 20 people with their own resources to someone who says "I'll conduct a tournament with 100 people, I did so many tournaments in past, I'm superb but I'm waiting for your support". Doing things>talking.
2. Precision and Wisdom: This means that knowing what you want, especially via the experience and past knowledge is very preferred. Instead of "We can do a tournament with special rule or regular rule or we can do this and we can do that", it's better to say "We do a tournament with the following rules and in future, we'll experiment with some silly rules."
These two actually are very close. For example: Instead of "If we have your support we will start working on a tournament," you could say "These are the rules we want to go with, we think it will take this amount of time. We would appreciate if you can sponsor the rewards." and you'll suddenly be on top of the crowd. To be clear, for an actual proposal I would expect more information, not just rules and time (for example: how will the refereeing work, who will take care of the various workload etc)
Anyway, I said there were 3 points.
3. Being a productive, positive member of the scene: I worked on shooter titles in various roles before and I really want to avoid "my scene beats your scene" "our competitive is the ONLY real competitive one" or people who are being sexist, racist etc. This is something I personally care about and I'd like to foster a good environment.
Now, these are our expectations, or rather features we value in partners we'd support. Let's talk about us.
At the moment, we can mainly do two things: Promote a tournament on various channels and provide rewards. Of course on which channels we promote, how we promote, what kind of rewards we provide... These need to be discussed.
To make expectations clear for everyone, we started working on a tournament guideline. Soon-ish-ish we will work on the details of this and publish it. There you will find a more structured approach on tournaments.
Meanwhile, I encourage everyone to start organizing some tournaments. The competitive scene is just being born. I'm sure you'll find people interested as these tournaments are where players will start making names. And even before the guidelines, definitely share with us your tournaments: We may still surprise you with some extra support.
I'm hoping to see some tournaments popping in the next weeks and months... and the guideline published!
Now, I'd like this topic to also serve as a discussion point. So please go on and talk about it. Are you an organizer? What are your concerns? Are you a competitive player? Are you looking for tournaments? If you are a casual player, would you still consider playing in tournaments? What makes a tournament interesting? We're looking forward to read on any relative topics. I'll personally read everything here as well.
PS: Forgot to mention. I get pokes on this on Discord and I tried to keep up, but I really can not, sorry people! I still try to read when I can. But with the guidelines we'll also set up an official means of communication on the topic as well.
I mentioned this in the latest HQ Report, but I feel like further clarity is needed.
The "Pre OBT" version on Steam, as noted in its description, is the Asian version.
Our page is currently only a coming soon page.
Our (Aeria Games/Gamigo) focus territories are NA/SA and EU (including some "extra" countries such as Turkey.)
If you are from these regions, you won't be able to play the game on the "Pre OBT" version.
The pages will soon be blocked properly on Steam and we'll be closing registrations on Asian regions for our version as well.
And when will our version be playable on Steam? Well, can't tell you now.
But keep an eye out on our news and reports for both Steam and further news regarding region restrictions.
We apologize for the confusion.
Yet another, and hopefully the update next to the last one.
Unfortunately, we ran into some issues this week. The fix seems to be working, but there was a little issue that prevented patching, so of course we couldn't roll it out like that. But we already received a fix for that too!
We are hoping to deploy the patch next week, fingers crossed. We still need to make sure things are fine, so this is not an official, announced date. You'll hear more next week!
Meanwhile, please go to here and as code, enter the magic question: GPFIXWHEN to get the final batch of rewards!
Update: The QA of the patch is ongoing.
As the issue persists, we edited the previous code so you can redeem it again.
In fact, if you hadn't before, you can redeem it twice!
You just need to go here and enter 7765206c6f766520796f75 (shoutout to redditor minorcross who figured the MYSTERY of the code.)
As a side note, HQ Report is coming #soon!
Hello, just writing to let you know is that the next HQ Report is coming #soon
Hello, just wanted to drop a comment to say that I'm reading and it's a topic we've been looking at and will have improvements in future.
Please keep sharing your ideas, comments and suggestions.
Weekly update here. Process is ongoing!
We actually just received a version for the fix, but it needs to be deployed to internal servers, tested and then deployed to live.
If nothing goes terribly wrong, this will happen in the next two weeks. If everything goes according to keikaku, it will be live next week \m/
Keeping the promise, I went ahead and prepared another code for the weekend. You can find it here.
Being the bossman, I might have even added a little tiny something on top of the regular content.
Also, a weird code.
Anyway, thanks once again for your understanding and enjoy the weekend.
PS: Unfortunately, I still haven't gotten to HQ Report But I'll do my best to get it done next week.
Mentioned on the new update as well: When the fix arrives, we will listen to what the community has to say. I can't say we'll back to formal values, but we will definitely not have you lose GP or anything like that.
I have an update on the matter after talking with Wiple and I can confirm that we will change repair ratios to be more favorable and ensure that you will never lose GP.
Wiple is currently developing the patch required to change the situation. Once ready, testing and deployment will follow, which will probably happen early June.
Meanwhile, we have another code for the weekend (technically, for the week, but you didn't hear that from me!)
You can go to here and enter WIILDWEEKEND to receive another 30K GP and 7 Day GP Boost. It's the least we can do under the circumstances.
We will continue to share these until we change the ratios.
Once the fix arrives, we will still follow your feedback and may do further adjustments along the line.
We're aware there are other changes in the patch that met mixed reactions and we'll be talking about those as well. I imagine at least some will be covered in the next HQ Report, which probably will also arrive early June.
We're glad to see you enjoyed the boost and hope you'll enjoy this weekend as well.
In our latest patch, there were some changes to the overall GP flow of the game and many of you found the changes detrimental to your game experience.
We hear your feedback clearly.
We've reached out to Wiple Games already. We'll soon come to a decision and take action.
I'd like to remind you that any potential changes will require development of a patch, meaning it may take a bit of time.
To ease your mind for the weekend and let you enjoy the new patch, we prepared a little something for you: A package containing 30.000 GP and a 7 Day GP Boost.
We hope this will help with the current gap and cover your repair costs for the weekend.
Please go to http://bit.ly/PHOENIXGP and enter PHOENIXGP to acquire the package.
We apologize for the inconvenience and encourage you to keep sharing your feedback.
Thank you for your understanding.
-The Ironsight Team
It's either an "intentional bug fix to set the prices to its intended price", or yall changed it to test the reaction. It cant be both
It is an intentional bug fix that sets prices to intended value, as communicated to us by devs.
We added it to the patch notes as soon as we discovered it was missing (which happened because we saw the feedback.)
We've already reached out to Wiple to discuss the topic further. Meanwhile, we'll be reading the feedback.
To be clear, this was not an explicit decision by Aeria Games.
As I said, we have our eyes on the subject and we are looking forward to hearing your feedback, which we will share with our developers.
I can't tell for sure that the final result will be the game's initial numbers, but please know that the changes are not set in stone, as with anything else in the game.
Well to be honest, since Russia got the same change with their game it looks like a developer decision
Well, doesn't that kind of make it pointless to give feedback to Aeria, if they are merely dictated to by Wiple?
It does not. Feedback, by definition, is on something existing.
Change is made.
We see the feedback and the data.
We talk with Wiple about changes.
Once again, please keep the conversation up. The more constructive and candid feedback, the better.
Hi everyone, just dropping a quick message.
We are monitoring both your feedback and the actual GP flow (ie GP gains vs spendings.)
We will share your feedback with Wiple Games and take action if needed.
So please, keep playing and keep sharing your feedback!
it would be better if you guys just delivered the pts rewards to everyone as a sign of "thanks for the community support" (doubt anybody would really complain, since everyone just wants them atm) . It wouldn't look worse than your actual situation.
This is the "back up" plan we've been talking about as well.
PTS-Rewards ... i should have place a bet on this, it would've been a safe win ... was my first thought: they promise rewards and don't have a clue how to get the data out of their log files.
Come on, don't be mean now : )
We all know how software works:
On a serious note, there was an issue with data tracking initially, which made things complicated.
Anyway, sorry for the wait, but #soon. Please bear with us!
I was really torn between PatrykPro and the_Director!
(Just posting to show off my new shiny signature)
Just dropping by to say HQ Report 5 is #soon!
So I can conclude that the reason for this is neither the risk of a GDPR violation, nor the cost of implementing procedures to ensure GDPR compliance? What is the reason then?
I am also suspicious of the statement that the majority of games follow the same practice, because the majority of games allow you to read your own chats with people at a later point in time, even after shutting down the client, uninstalling, wiping client state and reinstalling, which obviously implies that the chat state needs to be stored somewhere on the server-side.
I can't speak for the technical details of the chat implementation for neither the majority of games nor Ironsight.
What I'm referring to is that rules regarding storing logs did not appear with GDPR. There were regulations before, at least to my knowledge. I'm not an expert on the subject though.
I suppose I wasn't clear enough in the statement you quoted. "Can enforce chat moderation" is not referring to the fact that these games have clean chats and that there's no toxicity, but that moderators have the ability to properly moderate chat, even after the match has ended. I was specifically referring to the act of moderation, not the end result of moderation, although I do admit that motivating my post by criticizing the end result must have been a bit confusing.
In any case, this is exactly the issue: In other games, I don't need to take a screenshot of my own conversation, and there's a chance that people get banned even without me reporting them. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if many people reporting others for chat behaviour in Ironsight will assume that it works the same as in other games and not provide a screenshot, instead only outlining the situation and time it occured at.
This is of course all given that they will take the time to navigate to the ticket formula at all, assuming that they know that it exists and where to find it, considering that there is no in-game report function anymore.
Like I said, improving the reporting progress is a work-in-progress and we definitely have room for improvement. I learned that we actually used to have an in-game report function but it had some technical issues so it was drawn back.
It's something that will arrive at some point and our anti-cheat also offers some opportunities there.
This is good to hear, and I really hope that it's not just empty phrases to keep the community in check.
As you can see, I'm not making big promises anyway. I'm just here to clear out any misinformation (and take the responsibility, not to leave it on GDPR or anything) and let you know that the topic is in our scope for future. We just have heftier topics to handle before we can focus on this. That said, if we find out that it's actually becoming a big issue, of course we would act accordingly.
I'm not sure if I get the topic completely but let me comment. I think there is a misunderstanding at some part of this.
We do not store your chat.
We do not go around to check all the chat in rooms all the time.
However, rules on this existed before GDPR and majority of games also have the same practice.
We do act on reports.Quote
But why then do other chat services, especially in other games, resident in the EU, do fine?
I'd love to know why other games and services can enforce chat moderation, but Aeria Games can't."
I would disagree with the assumptions here, from my own experience as a player, from my observations in the communities I'm in and more importantly, following my communications with fellow industry members from other companies.
People show disrupting behavior in other games (published in EU or otherwise).
But then they get reported and they get a punishment for it.
This is also what we've been doing.
There are certainly ways we can improve this (improving how reports are handled, how results are communicated) and this is indeed one of the topics that are pretty much always a work-in-progress.
As mentioned, I'm in touch with fellow industry members regarding these topics and I try to keep an eye out on what processes and tools we can adapt to Ironsight. We do not have any immediate plans as we currently have more pressing issues to attend.
For now, best thing you can do is report these instances.
Feel free to provide feedback on the matter of course.
Hey everyone. Just wanted to say we appreciate the efforts and hope you'll join us on Saturday focus test.
Both the reports and your presence is helping and with a higher number on Saturday, we'll have a good amount of data to check things.
Please note that we have many fellow players connecting from all regions with higher lags, so you'd see unexpected behavior more than usual.
I also want to note that this isn't a magic fix to every single issue the game has, but an immensely important and necessary step for more changes to come.
We will talk more about future plans in upcoming HQ Reports and otherwise.
Thanks again and keep up the feedback!
oh I've already done those. Also, dog ate my first draft : (
Hi, I'm here. HQ Report #4 is WIP at the moment \m/
Hey guys, two quick remarks.
First, for the OP, I understand the situation. In fact, this is something I brought up to relevant teams in the past. However, it's a complex subject and a quite the effort to implement and as of now, there are no company plans on changing this.
While this is unfortunate, it's also a subject that I won't let go. No promises, but let's keep fingers crossed.
Second, about the boxes. Please know that one of the topics we are working on is the shop. From the categories to content of boxes, we will make several changes. No ETA yet.
Copyright issues obviously, but I'd like a Chucky Crawler for Halloween. So cuddly.
I see there are several questions revolving around the block itself. Unfortunately we haven't much to say except the decision wasn't ours. Depending on the question, it would be pointless/unethical/illegal for us to respond.
We are sorry for the inconvenience.
You won't have bestocatto over there but I hope it will be enjoyable!
Hey everyone, reading the comments and just wanted to drop a couple points.
1) This HQ report is only covering certain topics. It's meant to give you an acknowledgement of certain situations and an overview of where we are.
2) This is the first HQ report after a while but I promise you, next similar communication won't take that long. That's why I didn't want to put too many topics in it.
So this isn't an exhaustive list of important topics. Other topics aren't ignored or dismissed, they will be in future communications.
Please keep the feedback up!
It's time for an update. Get your coffee and start reading!
If you are wondering who I am, you can check my previous update here.
Now that we're caught up, let's talk!
I want to start by addressing the main concerns and telling you what's going on.
I've been reading through forums, reddit and discord and have seen three major concerns: technical issues, the content of the patches, and lack of communication. Let's go through all these one by one.
1) Technical Issues
Of course, the major topic here is the Netcode. To quickly recap, the way the game was handled in terms of server-client communication was optimized for Korea where the internet connections are great, but it caused issues in the rest of the world. The Cruise patch in September was meant to change this, but it didn't work the way it was intended and, as a result, we had extensive downtime and had to roll back this feature.
To explain the status now, I've good news and bad news.
- Bad News #1: The Netcode needs fixing and it's a difficult task for developers.
- Bad News #2: We don't want to break the game again, but internal testing is also insufficient.
Doesn't look optimistic, I know. However!
- Good News #1: We have an internal patch that's being tested!
- Good News #2: We will have a public test server to keep live servers safe while testing with as many people as we can!
ETA? None at the moment. It depends entirely on the internal test results. The sooner we feel comfortable with the results, the sooner we can start.
Expect more news from us in the coming days.
But Netcode isn't the only technical issue we face. There are some additional ones that are tied to the netcode. There are others that aren't directly related but aren't being handled as fast as we could because the focus is on the netcode.
These will also be tackled or finalized once the netcode fix is in place.
2) Patch Content
I noticed that some of you felt adding new skins to the game while there are issues was a bad sign. I understand how it feels, but please rest assured that there is no secret strategy here. As mentioned, the development team is focused mostly on the netcode. However, the graphical content released is created by different people in the team. The alternative would be to only let the relative coders work and tell everyone else to stop, which wouldn't make sense at all. Alternatively, we could tell more people to develop features and so on, but it would delay the netcode. So these patches are the natural result of the netcode focus.
3) Lack of Communication
This is something we'd definitely like to improve.
We'll start with HQ Reports. The updates are likely to be shorter from now on, but they should arrive more frequently.
No promises at the moment, but expect something between once a month or two. It will depend on how much time it takes and how much relevant things we have to talk about.
We'll also be monitoring your feedback as usual and see what else we can do.
Another topic I want to talk about before moving to comments on the future of the game is the Ranked System.
As you are probably aware, the Ranked System didn't work as intended and "the intentions" weren't very clear in the first place. Therefore, we will temporarily remove the system next week.
Ranked matches will of course come back and before it happens, we'll be sharing some information about it.
I know some of you are also curious about the game's future, what things will be added, and how things will change. At this point I don't have many details I can disclose, but I'd like to ask you not to be disheartened by the problems of today. This is a long journey we've set unto and early issues are frustrating, but better to be found and addressed now than later. As I wrote somewhere on forums, I'm looking forward to the days where we'll all go hipster and have sentences like "Back in OBT...".
Anyway, back on the topic future. After the netcode and following fixes, our list includes a few things that were already shared with you: going on Steam and releasing the game.
On the game side, of course, we will always look at more content: new items, new maps, and new modes.
But it's not just the new toys of course, we will also be looking at improving the existing features, working on balance, game mechanics etc.
There are several improvements we are talking and thinking about. I'm also aware that you have suggestions, expectations etc. They aren't ignored, but there isn't much to say precisely at this moment. These will be separate topics we'll discuss further in the future.
I'm looking forward to the future of the game and seeing through the evolution with you all. I'd like to hear any feedback, so I invite you to share your thoughts: Short, long, positive, negative, all are welcome.
- Netcode fix in works, expect to hear about the next version in the coming weeks.
- Smaller/Item patches are a natural cycle of the game and happen because the rest of team is concentrating on the netcode.
- We'll improve our communication with the community.
- We will talk more about the future ... in the future.
If you have any questions or if you would like to provide some feedback, feel free to answer on this forum post and I will be answering as many questions as I can.
See you on the next report!
Lincuxe I did see the surveys but thanks for bringing that in. More surveys will follow by the way! To be clear, I literally wrote as part of conversation. Surveys are nice, but I like hearing player perspectives in person.
As a player, in the games I've played, I'm kind of fine with that kind of system as long as I can get the boxes by playing.
As a PM, I think we need improvements in terms of what you get from boxes and how you acquire rewards, but I don't think the exact same system would work for Ironsight.