a public trello roadmap would be much appreciate and would renew my faith
honestly, as much as I like to make realism work where possible, aimpunch is such a great solution (esp against quick scope) that, while I welcome other ideas, I do not think realism is strong enough an argument.
Plus if you really want to get realistic, the extra stability you have immediately after ADSing pales in comparison to say a bullet hitting your gun or getting shot in the nuts at the same time XD.
if you type aimpunch in the search bar you'll find that this has been brought up on numerous occasions along with snipers being OP, with, from what I gather, the general consensus is that something has to be done and with increasing aimpunch/flinch being one of the most frequently offered solution. (a simple one at that too).
this mechanic just came to mind:
Maybe there could be a sweetspot too during holding breath where aimpunch is least. this sweetspot size and tolerance could be made better by a mini perk too as well maybe. (or in the form of a weapon tuning part).
I've always been in favor of adding options. Having custom game parameter we can change.
Only thing is dev couldn't really guarantee it be balanced because they have to focus around the default first.
Another thing is its also delicate in terms of trying not to split the player base suçh that it isn't hard to get games going.
For your mode to be remotely balance seeing as how the maps are fairly small smgs would dominate if headshots were 1 hit kill.
You may want a system like CSGO where weapons vary by gold you win each round. But then the game would likely be called out for plagiarism of sorts.
Lastly the current firing system IMO needs work. I find that the bullets vary too much sometimes its 3 bullets some times its 15+ to kill someone. I know its likely me missing too much and I have found tap firing is the way to go in this game at medium range. (You fan still reach high rof with tap firing) The bullet count of just 30 may also be too little.
Having a reload cancel option would also be useful as I find myself wanting to reload even after shooting just 5 or so bullets.
Oh, im not finished yet P4prik4 , ill try and find my error, or at least find an issue that explains it.
its a beta game, it'd be foolish to place the burden of error on us.
You're better off demanding for the formula or tradeoffs they used... if they even used one, which I would not even give them that much credit, as I do not see them use that level of finess anywhere else.
trying to reverse engineer this messy formula sounds like a real head ache. IMO they likely just winged it.
This is a f2p shooter which are mostly a dime a dozen. If it was a AAA title I'd be far more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Even bigger titles like GITS FA released stats that were unacceptable on some weapons. F2020 took so long to finally get balanced for example.
Plus the weapons are to my experience not balance which further confirms that the error is on their end.
There's no good explanation. All the gun recoil feel pretty similar too.
Even if they were right there is no denying that they failed to properly list the stats accurately.
This is irksome for us.
So its definitive, the scale is not consistent and needs to be revised and some weapons might need more tweaking than others and most will need minor adjustment.
It's important that all the stats be transparent, or at the very least pass general eyeball/feel test which the current ROF did not pass, as I picked up on it quite quickly and posted this thread.
Thx again Potestas
snipers able to 1 shot leg when garage doors open is annoying. But that's not so much the maps fault.
Same with being able to shoot with only head showing from elevated spots also feels op. This goes for other maps too
For me ideally I'd want bullets to exit your weapon not your mouth.
I like that its unsualy/unique in a fun way and has different elevations.
thanks a bunch,
using a stopwatch and clicking is not ideal. plus using cheap laptop here.
can you please test the FAMAS vs MSBS and the FAMAS vs Vector
they both have 13 point difference in ROF between them.
87-74= 13 and 100-87=13
except I can hardly pick up the difference between the MSBS & FAMAS
And I can clearly see a 1 sec difference between FAMAS and Vector.
if ROF was linear then the time difference should be the same in either comparisons.
you are right about the SA58 and how it does not show much inconsistency vs the MSBS. was hard to pick up on like a 0.3 second difference with my tools.
I really expected 7 rof to be noticeable without having to need excellent tools. this concerns me that it isn't.
I did find the difference between SCAR and AK12 to be a little more reasonable.
RPM/10 is a cool formula thanks
So the BlazerR93 would be closer to 3.3RPM/10 yet its listed at 5.
If it was (RPM/10) the FAMAS would be listed at 60.
Since its 30 bullets in 3 seconds
In game its listed at 87
What ever they used, the cap seems to be 100 with the Vector, which leads me to think it's based off this. What ever formula they are using, the numbers weapons have do not give a good representation of actual in game ROF.
PotestasNecis I would need you to do like I did and use a stopwatch and then collect all your results for a couple weapons in a spreadsheet.
Take down how long it took to empty your clip
competitively the weapon balance is unacceptable. and if you want an fps game to succeed this needs to be number one priority.
we need to stress the importance of revisiting/tweaking the game's current gameplay preferably before adding more content.
as much as I welcome new content, you can add all the content in the world and this game will still fall short if the fundamentals are wonky.
ya a lot of this game leaves us the dark, failing to adequately explain what does what for a couple things.
One solution that I could help is to have it so sniper rifles list ROF by a time in seconds between shots.
Simply because snipers are too far removed to be on the same scale as automatic rifles.
it makes no sense to list it on the same scale because all the weapons would be towards the one end of the number line.
ROF needs to be linear with each increments. and it simply cannot be with the current number line.
its possible that my shitty fps affects my rof, so if someone could validate my numbers would be nice.
So i'm using a tablet with a stopwatch and here are the numbers I got:
Time to empty clip and rof:
SA58=3.12s (adjusted to 30 ammo) ROF = 67
ARX= 3.1s (Maybe 3.05) ROF = 74
7rof points should be worth a lot more than maybe 0.07sec
FAMAS = 3.0s (maybe 2.95) ROF = 87
VECTOR = 2.1 s(maybe 2.05) ROF = 100
Why is it that the SA58, ARX & FAMAS empty a 30 ammo clip in nearly the same time yet have so many different ROF?
difference between vector and Famas makes more sense. 13 rof less than vector= ~0.9sec longer to empty clip.
if the scar worked this way 13x3 =39 rof less than vector. 100-39 = 61 rof = scar's
so 0.9x3 = 2.7sec longer. so scar should empty in about 4.7 sec
even if we were generous and call it 4.5s
the Scar still currently empties too quickly
SCAR = ~3.95? (adjusted to 30 ammo) ROF = 61
AK12 = 3.8 ROF = 63
^these two make a little more sense but still too fast in terms of consistency when compared to FAMA and vector
can I get some in game chips for my time thanks
Does YouTuber Gnomedalf frequent these boards?
He does a great job going over game mechanics and weapon stats.
Maybe he could run more tests on ROF across weapons.
without a sandbox, there's no telling for sure what is accurate or not stat wise on the weapons. ROF might not be the only thing where the stats do not match up with description on certain weapons.
Yes, the Scar and FAMAS do feel better.
Some weapons may be buggy some not. The two in the video I made definitely are buggy tho.
you would think the SA would be op, but I don't see it used much, I wonder if it's damage is not accurate either.
It's a shame too because it looks like it would be a good choice to deal with snipers.
if they miss they die... Just dont get shot, kappa
thing is more often then not they just won't miss. like Anarch said it isn't that hard up close.
I have ideas in mind as possible solutions. would like to hear some other ideas though first
odeum in battlerite is a pretty good example of a solid replay system.
another positive is that awesome fanmade montages/top plays list also act as a sort of free publicity for the game.
for Linux, no need to offer native support, just recognizing and welcoming efforts made to get it to work with wine compatibility layer would be a big step.
would just need to make sure to put a disclaimer that if players use wine that you will not offer any support if any malfunctions should occur.
just thought this could help Gamigo.
example League of Legends has an option to download from peers.
Maybe you could take a load off your servers by recommending people use p2p sharing to download the game.
more resources freed from Gamigo is more resources that can go into Ironsight.
could even give out skins/rewards to people that have seeded the game a lot.
this can be done for all of Gamigo's other games as well.
Providing torrent magnet link under alternative download methods could also be helpful.
A lot of programs do this. Example see Ubuntu's download page:
On a different note: Linux support would be sooooo dope!
there are a lot of games looking to be available on linux. example: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/…-be-coming-to-linux.11590
Wine might also find a way to work with Battleeye as well:
though IMO I think tools that can help the community scrutinize gameplay is better than anti cheat programs that are anything but fullproof.
how about something like:
points at camera , then point at flexed bicep while nodding then wipes brow (show exhaustion).
i guess the rest emote is a bit like a sign of respect. indicating you took a lot outta me.
a step above this would be to have a sandbox like Blacksquad has,one where it shows dmg values.
Battlerite has a practice zone as well.
but ya being able to test before buying would help.
only problem I see though is it would hurt their monetization. for example it will help people select exactly what they want to main and not have as much incentive to buy gold/exp boosters. That said people will usually ask around and watch gameplay before buying a weapon. as well as look at what's popular/meta. So its not that big a deal.
looking for alternate ways to monetize would be ideal imo.
a skin marketplace like CSGO or DOTA2 would be ideal.
this might have something to do with it:
also if the weapons with lower ROF actually had lower rof it would also sound differently.
Though like you say it could be the sounds themselves too.
It just might be worth looking into those two bugs listed first and then see what guns need to be more unique sounding.
very nice it would be nice to have more in depth stats like this in game when viewing weapon stats.
Another thing worth showing would be average spray pattern for each gun. Showing an image of bullet spread+kick while hipfiring and ADS
between the buggy kill cams and the net code and skill differential (might be nice to have a system to join games by like level restriction or even rank).
it can be difficult to tell who is hacking, or if a person claiming someone hacks is hacking.
fixing killcam, adding ping restrictions/region lock. etc i have other ideas.
these need to be looked at before we can truly crack down on hackers.
there's a lot to consider. the fact that tapfiring helps so much with recoil control while hipfire, in ADS too. but more control just make hipfire even more viable.
then there's the flinching which while zoomed just feels worse.
the zoom in while better vs range, makes you sacrifice a lot of peripheral vision.
the reduced movement is the main drawback that I do not find makes ADS worth while.
so game wants us to ads at range. k makes sense. yet it still sucks at range. because dmg drop off is pretty high.
other things that concern me are strafe speed while ads with AR vs smg. the speed should be the same or more negligible.
strafing with ARs is really slow.
I will say though that i've been practicing ADS while firing and this does help a lot. it's not really something I was in habbit of doing.
though ADS accuracy needs to be looked into. or maybe more like the first 3 shots and past that its more erratic. but its mostly just strafe speed and zoom amount I dislike.
I get having some sights with more zoom for tho that want it tho.
A an important piece is to make it so tap firing has compounding recoil depending on the rate of it. such that it keeps track of how much your tap firing and slows the recoil recovery between shots significantly if you are spamming taps and will increase spread accordingly.
Ideally we would need a parabolic formula for best results.
curves help with creating ideal balance
meant to point out this is in the context of if snipers are nerfed so they can't one shot (except like head and stuff).
Just putting this out there.
snipers could maybe have more permanent damage.
so if shot by sniper (non killing blow) prevents you from regenerating to max hp. say can only regen to 80%.
(varies by sniper of course) rapid fire would have less of this and maybe not count if hit limbs.
this would be useful if a sniper tagged you early in the round remembers this and knows that his next shot can kill even if hits a limb.
you using the aim quick perk right?
I could actually see them release a scout like sniper with fast quick scope. for head shot focus snipers.
I would rather the baseline TTK of the game not be for snipers to be able to fastscope and insta kill people.
I do not think it belongs in this game. I could see it just for throwables though.
especially like flash/stun nades.
would be nice to throw them shorter distances too with right click.
games that have lean end up with it being a big part of the game. if you look at R6 Siege so much of the game is spent leaning.
as mxhc said its more for slower paced games.
awesome effort on the music, you have talent, keep honing it.
I like the tune on its own. though might not fit this game that much, a little dark and slightly too futuristic.
I dislike how the starting beat is used throughout the song.
maybe this song might inspire you, similar to yours:
there are a couple from that game that are good.
like this one: https://clyp.it/3tb3cf1s
but aiming down sight does not give weapons less bullet spread aka better acuracy. Its like skills dosent matter or very little in this game.
Yes this is def an issue for me as well. ADS should improve your accuracy. does not have to be by much but it should. Taking the time to ADS should mean something.
One hit kills to the body are unfair
In the current state yes.
however, one hit kills to the body are not unfair with the right amount of difficulty assigned to it.
if snipers have enough drawbacks I'd be totally okay with them one shotting.
the thing is that the hold breath is not a big enough drawback atm.
I like the sway/breath, and it's really not a big deal once you get used to it it's like it hardly even exist.
Our options are three fold:
buff the range and stopping power of automatic weapons
add more difficulty/nerf dmg to sniping
or a little of both. <where I stand atm
Quickscoping is a skill not many people can pull off well.
Why should a sniper only work certain ranges? if someone is really good and can shoot a guy up close range after scoping in why not say "that players is good" but instead go and blame snipers for being too strong.
well balancing should be centered around high level players. and hardscoping just is not that hard at higher levels. There, Mechanics are for the most part mastered, the game becomes more about who has best communication and strats.
I think most can pull hardscoping off at higher level play and so saying it's entitled to more power because it takes skill does not hold up.
and a sniper is not just stuck to long ranges they can likely pick up other primary weapons, use hg, throwables, knife< maybe get perks that help with these.
all super great items.
knocking these out would do a lot towards polishing this game.
Why does everyone think that nerfing snipers to the ground is the way to go instead of buffing the AR's
what I wrote there goes along with what Nobsi is saying.
so guns with high range like the SCAR , AN94, HK417 would be better suited vs snipers. A bunch of runner ups too like the M4ACC, AUG, AK etc would be nearly as good.
I think a big way to nerf snipers indirectly is to buff the slower rate of fire ARs so they can do better vs Snipers.
maybe have a category for designated marksmen guns.
plus buffing damage drop off on most guns too.
other post here too
I also agree that aimpunch should vary by what parts of the body you hit, shooting in the leg and getting aim punched much doesn't make sense.
also on the topic of aimpunch this might interest you:
it seeks to make it more consistent across all weapons.
sadly they practically did not implement any of the many great suggestions made for it.
anyways this idea would also make sense in Ironsight.
CS GO has some amazing pistol compilations and it would not be as possible if they had ADS and gun models blocked the view of who your shooting at, esp if there's recoil and you're going for head.
default sights on HGs aren't as useful as the full Ironsights on ARs/Smgs
It's also kind of realistic because near objects blur when looking at target past them.
maybe the transparentcy could be less if you're firing really fast.
would be great for your first shot at least to be able to see well past your HG
It's not in the game. Jackal also mentioned that in this thread here
if sprinting helped you with cancelling reload why is it not in this pretty comprehensive thread titled:
just a quick search gave me a lot of posts that points to there not being cancel with sprint.
Only cancel is with swap and return to primary.
I'd also very much like some breathing space between matches. ...I don't want much but just another 60 seconds to go through my loadouts, repair or change something and possibly see my stats for a bit between matches would be nice.
press close instead of continue?
Repressing R isn't difficult, you're right. I suspect if it was a thing, people would just question why the same action isn't mapped to shift like in other games though, and complain about it. I supposed your hand has easier access to shift than to R whilst still moving around with WASD too, so that's something else to consider
Come to think of it, we could even bind it to shift key. Just like how breathing is the shift key while ADS with sniper. So as long as it is state dependent you can have the same key serve multiple uses.
So using shift could work. or just press 1 rather than 2&1.
End of the day, main different between this and the current 2then1 switch is mostly one of realism.
if you want to run while reloading you'd have to switch weapons, do the 2&1 thing.
for me I sometimes use knife. Only problem is that taking out knife atm is weird... If you do not time it right and press shift to run at nearly the same time, the game makes you wait to fully draw out your knife before you can run.
Maybe the game could allow you to run while reinserting clip. just not while taking out/replacing clip.
Going on a tangent, brainstorming: maybe a mini perk could allow reload while run.
and lastly I kind of like the idea of putting a twist on reinserting clip and perhaps make it a smidge faster than the current 2&1 switch. but if you fire as soon as you can you might get some penalized accuracy.
If it's missing, well, it's fine because it allows for things like waiting on an enemy to reload before pushing knowing they "can't" cancel.
i think because the sprint is so strong in this game plus things like feather step make not having cancel pretty rough.
I've played FPS games that have fewer reasons to have sprint cancel feature than Ironsight has and have it.
I'd be more okay with not being able to cancel reload (even though it's already in the game with press 2&1) if I was not so much locked into having to use the perks for it.
I do think using cancel reload allows for more ammo diversity.
consider that without this, guns with more ammo are stronger.
not to mention might be hard to tell if they have a certain gun, or that they have the larger ammo clip mod. One of the reason the AR57 is so strong right now.
it's true that we need a window for them to reload and make a move. that said they likely have less ammo to shoot you with too if they reinsert clip. so still a good time to engage if you sense they are reloading.
perhaps your accuracy could be a little less if you fire as soon as you reinsert clip. or more susceptible to aimpunch. if you reinsert and do not fire for 0.2 sec you shoot fine.
I also find shooters are relatively simple as far as what you need to learn, compared with other genres, so this still would not make things too complex while adding depth, might also stand out from all the shooters out there.Quote
I imagine cancelling reload with "R" would be even less used because it's unnatural due to people being used to i)
people being used to sprint cancel vs this, idk repressing R I don't think is difficult to learn. but then pressing 2&1 shouldn't be hard either.
Giving me a headache. I think its mostly a wash. meaning no mechanic is really good nor bad. what ever is picked as long as we teach the player of it's importance in tutorial would be helpful.
I know overall it sounds negligible. I think it falls more under QoL for players who do not use 2 & 1 much.
Why not have both or all 3 for that matter pick your preferred way of reset.
or just press 1 again to either redraw primary, or reinsert clip (just animation/ favor realism or not).
I don't play GoW or much of console that's why I didn't comment much on GoW.
Agreed, that the GoW mechanic has a place in certain types of games, my hunch is that I too do not think it would fit in Ironsight, trying to be open to ideas tho.