HQ Note: Community Tournaments

  • Hello everyone,

    There is a topic I'd like to drop a specific note on: Community Tournaments.

    It's a topic I've wanted to make progress on and communicate about, but simply didn't have time to (due to patches etc taking priority.)


    TL;DR: You'll hear about it, I promise. But the less you wait for us and the more things you do by yourself, the more likely it is that you are getting support. Start organizing some! Also, feedback on the topic here.


    Long version:


    When we were first approached by the tournament makers some weeks ago, I asked CM team to keep in touch, but also wanted to lay down some guidelines. Since then, I've dropped replies on forums, talked about it in HQ Reports... And our main standing is the same. We have three main criterias:

    1. Self-motivated Productivity: This means that we prefer someone who already works on a tournament for 20 people with their own resources to someone who says "I'll conduct a tournament with 100 people, I did so many tournaments in past, I'm superb but I'm waiting for your support". Doing things>talking.

    2. Precision and Wisdom: This means that knowing what you want, especially via the experience and past knowledge is very preferred. Instead of "We can do a tournament with special rule or regular rule or we can do this and we can do that", it's better to say "We do a tournament with the following rules and in future, we'll experiment with some silly rules."


    These two actually are very close. For example: Instead of "If we have your support we will start working on a tournament," you could say "These are the rules we want to go with, we think it will take this amount of time. We would appreciate if you can sponsor the rewards." and you'll suddenly be on top of the crowd. To be clear, for an actual proposal I would expect more information, not just rules and time (for example: how will the refereeing work, who will take care of the various workload etc)


    Anyway, I said there were 3 points.

    3. Being a productive, positive member of the scene: I worked on shooter titles in various roles before and I really want to avoid "my scene beats your scene" "our competitive is the ONLY real competitive one" or people who are being sexist, racist etc. This is something I personally care about and I'd like to foster a good environment.


    Now, these are our expectations, or rather features we value in partners we'd support. Let's talk about us.


    At the moment, we can mainly do two things: Promote a tournament on various channels and provide rewards. Of course on which channels we promote, how we promote, what kind of rewards we provide... These need to be discussed.


    To make expectations clear for everyone, we started working on a tournament guideline. Soon-ish-ish we will work on the details of this and publish it. There you will find a more structured approach on tournaments.


    Meanwhile, I encourage everyone to start organizing some tournaments. The competitive scene is just being born. I'm sure you'll find people interested as these tournaments are where players will start making names. And even before the guidelines, definitely share with us your tournaments: We may still surprise you with some extra support.


    I'm hoping to see some tournaments popping in the next weeks and months... and the guideline published!



    Now, I'd like this topic to also serve as a discussion point. So please go on and talk about it. Are you an organizer? What are your concerns? Are you a competitive player? Are you looking for tournaments? If you are a casual player, would you still consider playing in tournaments? What makes a tournament interesting? We're looking forward to read on any relative topics. I'll personally read everything here as well.


    PS: Forgot to mention. I get pokes on this on Discord and I tried to keep up, but I really can not, sorry people! I still try to read when I can. But with the guidelines we'll also set up an official means of communication on the topic as well.

  • Hey Director, thanks for communicating with the competitive members of the ironsight community.


    Tournaments are great and all but is there anyway we can improve the player base in the ironsight ranked game mode? I understand you want us to self-organize but the competitive scene is small and most players are casual. Improving the ranked game mode to a decent state will encourage people to play more competitively and increase the desire to self-host tournaments.


    I want to be honest. The ranked mode release was very lackluster. Many big name ironsight comp players from last year came back to try it out and EVERYONE was upset with the lack of improvements since before the update. The dev team removed the ranked mode for a couple months but the only improvement was the addition of parties. They increased player count from 5v5 to 6v6 which needs more people to start a game and goes against comp team layout of 5v5. They also removed a feature to show how many people are in ranked queue. ie: "6/10 in queue". Lastly one of the biggest gripes about ranked mode is killstreaks. It was probably the biggest complaint about ironsight ranked game mode and they never got removed. Like in any competitive game, a human's pure skill should determine who wins and who loses. Killstreaks add too much of an RNG and "easymode" factor in comp games. Removing them will keep the game consistent with other FPS comp shooters like R6, CSGO and CoD (there are other differences obviously).


    It is hard to motivate the small competitive scene to host ironsight tournaments when the Devs do not listen to the community suggestions, especially those that aim to help with ironsight's competitive ranked game mode.

  • As a competitive player I can tell your right now that "community tournaments" are not going to bring back the competitive players.

    Majority has moved on since it took you over a year to acknowledge the competitive scene, with community tournaments...


    If you're serious about having an esport scene, it will have to come from your side. With possible LAN events or at least consistent tournaments with a decent prizepool. Because the ship of having the community organize small tournaments has sailed, those people have already put in a ton of time and are most likely done with that since it didn't pay off.


    But that's just my opinion, ofcourse.

    twitch.tv/aeonwastaken

    youtube.com/ramziaeongeysen

  • PS: Forgot to mention. I get pokes on this on Discord and I tried to keep up, but I really can not, sorry people! I still try to read when I can. But with the guidelines we'll also set up an official means of communication on the topic as well.

    Before saying discussing other things, I'd suggest creating:
    1. A link to a form organizers can fill out with their plans, needs, and evidence of past tournaments (aka I can send past Smash Ultimate/ Smash 4 Tournaments and such)

    2. A poll to gather user names of those that are interested in tournaments as to create an easy way to advertise and communicate with them.

    --------------

    Alright so now for some questions/thoughts that may be worth discussing:

    1. Would you be able to compensate the organizer/shoutcasters in some way?
    Just like how I'd pay those that do it in person, I'd like to give an actual incentive for good commentary while excluding them from playing.

    Basically, if I were to organize this tournament, I would have a hard time paying shoutcasters due to these tournaments most likely not being a money pool to start with in order to grow the scene so providing these workers with chips or something would be good.

    2. To keep an indirect competitive feel with the scene it would be nice to incorporate a leaderboard for teams winning in IS moderator sanctioned tournaments allocating points via placement (similar to ranked in the normal game).

    3. Are there any plans you have for encouraging ranked/competitive play? Or an easier way to get people into ranked?
    The difficulty of even getting into a ranked match immediately affects those that want to play competitively.


    I've wanted to host a tournament for this game for half a year but have been swayed to hold the thought due to almost every one of the highest ranked players in this game saying it's a waste of time until the moderators and such begin open discussions so I'm happy there's a step forward happening.
    What would be the best way to contact you about hosting?
    I literally have everything needed to begin asking players for their interest but would like some of these points clarified on.

  • Regarding to the original post, this game isn't still ready to a real competition due to various motivation, then for now just keep it grow and fix/implement what it needs. Friendly tip: SnD must be a 5v5 with no drones, either in competitive(tournaments) either in ranked.

  • There are several retards but IAMAFETUS from LiterallyCancer is the best one, what else to say after seeing his IGN and his clan's name.

    Dang. Straight to the personal attacks.
    Just because people are good doesn't mean they're bad people lol. Hell he's one of the nicest people in the game.

    Rather than insulting the community, why not just try to actually talk to the people you badmouth? I'm 100% sure you've never tried to actually talk with these people in a positive way.

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  • Hello, leaving two comments quickly.


    1) Please try and ignore distruptive people, our moderators/CMs will take care of them.

    2) What I mentioned above is not our only plans for esports/competitive (far from it.)


    Looking forward to hearing all the input regarding competitive play/scene.

  • I am a comp scene member from november last year and i must say that community tournaments wont bring ppl back. To this time our rquests has been ignored (for instance no killstreaks in ranked mode). We had some leagues but they weres sponsored by ourselfs, the prizepool was our money. Add to that almost no communication from devs and you get a nice picture why most of comp scene players quit and dont play ironsight anymore. If you want to bring them back you need to organise actual tournament with actual money as a prizepool, not bunch of boxes and gp, a real actual money.

  • Tournaments are great and all but is there anyway we can improve the player base in the ironsight ranked game mode? I understand you want us to self-organize but the competitive scene is small and most players are casual. Improving the ranked game mode to a decent state will encourage people to play more competitively and increase the desire to self-host tournaments.


    I want to be honest. The ranked mode release was very lackluster. Many big name ironsight comp players from last year came back to try it out and EVERYONE was upset with the lack of improvements since before the update. The dev team removed the ranked mode for a couple months but the only improvement was the addition of parties. They increased player count from 5v5 to 6v6 which needs more people to start a game and goes against comp team layout of 5v5. They also removed a feature to show how many people are in ranked queue. ie: "6/10 in queue". Lastly one of the biggest gripes about ranked mode is killstreaks. It was probably the biggest complaint about ironsight ranked game mode and they never got removed. Like in any competitive game, a human's pure skill should determine who wins and who loses. Killstreaks add too much of an RNG and "easymode" factor in comp games. Removing them will keep the game consistent with other FPS comp shooters like R6, CSGO and CoD (there are other differences obviously).


    It is hard to motivate the small competitive scene to host ironsight tournaments when the Devs do not listen to the community suggestions, especially those that aim to help with ironsight's competitive ranked game mode.

    Well said Fetus! Even though I played comp, I enjoyed it and wish/hope it'll come back. Casually playing the game, I'm running out of stuff to do so it's hard to keep playing the game unless I'm playing with friends. I barely touch the current ranked mode, due to the fact that queues possibly take long and I don't know how many people are in the queue. I'm in favor of the old system where it listed how many players were in the queue and only being 5v5. However, for the old system, I wish players would get an achievement / title instantly once you reached a certain rank (ex. Master title for reaching Master rank). I agree with Fetus for the killstreaks, it kills the "competitive aspect of the game" imo when the other team has a hellbird or something and you can't do much about it except hide.


    For tournaments, we have seen many tournaments happen in the past (ex. Tier 1 tournament - which I think went pretty well for being one of the biggest /first tournaments) so I definitely think it's doable and can't wait to see what's in stock for the competitive side of the game.

    "Strive Higher and Always stay Ascended!"
    im bad at sniping

  • This game first needs to grow up, in number of active players, in quality of gameplay, I mean, it need to be a real game, not just a BETA game. Then and only then is this game can consider organizing tournaments, either by the players themselves or by the owners of the game.


    In other words, this game is still a child and children do not go to war, they must first grow up, mature, become men and then they will be ready not to cry in the trenches.

  • Long read guys.


    Here in SA we're playing our first tournament. I think everything will work just fine, but there are things the game still needs to become really competitive.

    Just an add-on to the informations below, we play 9 rounds to win on S&D.


    Ranked: As lionking said above, ranked mode is not working as it should be. 5v5 should be back. I know how important drones are, they are the very image of the game, but at competitive level they take away all the skill gap the game has available. Parties of 5 should not be allowed too; duos would be just fine.


    Features: There are some that would help a lot:


    ---Match History - For teams, keeping track of overall performance, better and worst maps for each of members, would help us improve our playstyle, see our pros and cons, etc. In the other hand, would help organizers keep track of their tourney matches, results for the brackets, as they can't spectate everygame at once; would just make their organization easier.


    ---Spectator Cam - We need more information when we enter spectator mode, like HP/Stamina bars, utilities, c4 holder, etc. I saw the steam asia pre-obt pic, and if it updates to that version, we will be pretty much fine. Don't forget improved control/hotekeys for speccam, as it is all messy by now (LMB can jump to players form the other team, then you get all confused).


    ---Match Lobbies

    1. We should be able to separate NAF and Eden teams on the lobby screen; here on SA we play a lot of Mixed Matches (it's our personal ranked mode), this pre-organization would help a lot.


    2. Training lobby - Should have:

    2.1 Create training lobby at any map.

    2.2 Ability to put bots anywhere on the map, so we can test pixel nades, damage per distance, etc.

    2.3 Grenades Trail

    2.4 Infinite Ammo (or at least a suicide button on esc menu, so we can change/reroll loadouts).


    3. Wepons should not break on custom games, as we don't get any income on those matches.


    I think some of these ideas are not hard to implement and would change the health of the game a lot.

    Sorry for the long post and grammar mistakes. I love this game and i want to see it going far.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Rader ().

  • 2) What I mentioned above is not our only plans for esports/competitive (far from it.)


    Looking forward to hearing all the input regarding competitive play/scene.

    To be critical on you/staff, you just addressed why so many of us want to play competitively but can't rally a large enough community to keep it alive.

    This post from the_Director is just too early if the plans for esports/competitive play cannot be shared openly.
    We've all been talking about private tournaments for months on end but have stayed away due to so many technical issues/balancing with competitive play as well as insanely little transparency from community heads.

    The "begin planning" phase isn't going to work until you guys at least show your hand in listening to the competitive community.
    There are things that can be designed and tested in a week that would immediately increase competitive play:

    1. Total number of players Q'd up for ranked (like before)
    2. Reducing required number of players
    3. Remove score-streaks for ranked
    4. Create active rewards for ranked

    Unless the coding/developer interface is insanely messed up, more than half of these should take less than an hour to implement and initiate testing on.
    This comes from a person who started as a software engineer and ended up in economics. If it takes months to implement something everyone in the competitive community wants, it's extremely questionable what the developers are doing since competitive is what normally sustains a game's value over time in Free-to-play

  • This is truly distasteful and ultimately insulting to the people who spent over a year trying to develop a competitive scene. the_Director You and your team have dragged people along by saying over and over that you "want to support competitive". There was a 16 team league with a $50 entry fee, AT LEAST 3000 pick up games played, and countless tournaments supported with cash prizes by players who wanted to see the game flourish. All of these things, your competitve community managers were well aware of, however you decided not to act on them. In all of these endeavors, there was a set ruleset and a set way to stop people from cheating by using MOSS, which was also relayed to your competitive community managers. For some strange reason you decided to "support" the person you SPECIFICALLY called out in your message about "silly rules" and not the people who did all of the things that were listed above. You kicked the community in the face when we put together the draft tournament and you were going to give 10k GP to the people who entered and are somehow surprised that it fell through. Worse than that, this is now your example of people "not following through" and saying they're "high and mighty and going to start something" so you guys can feel like nothing is your fault. The competitive scene of the game IS ON YOU, saying that the players must do it is absolutely absurd seeing as how this was done continuously BY THE PLAYERS.