Some ideas I think would improve the game

  • First of all, I will just say the problems I see on the gameplay. (With the exception of things that will probably be changed until the game release. Like skills, net code, bugs and stuff.) :

    • Hip fire is just to easy, really easy, mainly because body shots deal too much damage put on the game's weapons fire rate. it barely requires you to aim in somewhere. Don't feels like the skill gap is high. I barely see a difference playing against level 20 players and lvl 200, at least on the aim, and that's just not cool, for being a FPS game, you expect expert players to aim better than the new players.
    • Head shots are under powered, you need something like 3 head shots to kill someone with a rifle (And that's not a easy task). Meanwhile, a SMG player can spam bullets from a short range and will get you killed in a second. The mark of FPS games are the head shots, and getting a bullet on the head of your opponent and not killing him is such a bad feeling.
    • Snipers feel way too slow, On big distance it's far to easy to hit a shot, and small distances you will get deleted, it's almost impossible to trade. So the game just looks static. Or you gonna get easy kills from big distances, or you gonna be deleted from the game.

    In my opinion these are to way to fix those problems:

    • Make head shots the main feature of the game, a single head shot gets a kill. Head shots are just so beautiful in my opinion, you need to give them more attention.
    • Buff hip fire (I know, it sounds a little bit odd) and nerf massively body shots damage, so the rate of fire would be the X factor on short ranges, you would have way more chances to get a head shot on close distances, but would still suck at medium and large distances because of the recoil.
    • Make easier access to female characters. For them being thinner snipers and body shooters will just have a harder experience to get kills, requiring more skill. And at the same time the male characters could be buffed on +20 HP to have better experience against rifles. So choosing between male and female would be a personal decision, not just: If you have a female character, pick it. In my personal opinion, female characters are just cooler, it would not be a problem if they were the main characters of the game.
    • Because of these 2 changes, snipers would be weak, and some buffs would be required, especially because of the +20 HP on the male characters, and the capability of dying with a single head shot, so, in my opinion, give them more speed to walk with the sniper on hands, and less reload time between shots. It would feel way cooler to play sniper, and wouldn't be broken, because rifles and SMG's would not suck against snipers anymore.

    No hate please, just my opinion :)

  • An interesting set of points. I 100% agree on headshots being underwhelming in most cases, and it would be nicer if female skins were more readily available, but some of your other points are dubious

    If you massively nerf bodyshot damage, it gets considerably more difficult to kill over distance. Gender specific buffs seems weird, given how female characters are only barely noticably smaller, and giving males more health would just make it worse when combined with the above

    While buffing headshots to the point where one shot is a guaranteed kill, it makes it where the game just becomes headclickingsimulator for someone like me who has years of fps experience, and thus not really fun for anyone involved

  • Post by sqroot ().

    This post was deleted by the author themselves ().
    • Hipfire is easy, but ADS with ARs like the FAMAS is more effective on most maps, even at close range (except for maybe Dam or Cloud9, but I believe that those maps are inherently broken anyways).
    • I strongly disagree that you can't notice a difference between good and bad players in terms of aim, that doesn't reflect my experience at all.
    • Headshots are underpowered because Ironsight is a fast game with low TTK and buffing headshots would result in huge TTK variation. This can make sense if your TTK is high in the first place so instead of flicking at heads you track them, like in Dirty Bomb, or if the game is considerably slower and makes aiming at the head way easier, like in CS. In Ironsight however, the character models move relatively much and relatively quickly; consistently hitting headshots would be almost impossible and in the end random headshots would decide most fights, especially with the current kickback, which you would have to nerf as well. So for this not to happen either the TTK would have to be increased significantly, or the game would have to be a lot slower, and in either case you might as well rename the game to something different as it would be a whole different game.
    • "Meanwhile, a SMG player can spam bullets from a short range and will get you killed in a second." - Luckily Ironsight doesn't only play out in situations where you're so close to your enemy that SMG hipfire will hit every bullet.
    • I strongly disagree that headshots are somehow the mark of FPS games or that it feels bad when your opponent doesn't die from a headshot. The only kind of FPS I know that does this is CS and its Korea clones, so it's certainly not "the mark of FPS games".
    • Snipers can be sufficiently effective at close range, as discussed in the other thread about this. If you prescope angles, hit your shots and position yourself well, you'll be able to win 1v1 situations. Sure, it's significantly harder, good people won't run into your prescope, dodge your shots, surprise you or rush with multiple people, but it's nowhere near impossible, as you claim. It's usually less effective than using an AR at that range (unless you're in a position where you can always prescope a small angle), but that's completely fine.
    • Additionally nerfing body damage would just result in more TTK randomness as described above.
    • Some people claim that the female model has the same hitbox as the male model. I haven't gotten a chance to verify this, but if this is true, there isn't a huge difference at all, except for maybe a bit of visibility.
    • Giving male models a 20HP buff would just result in more TTK variation, resulting in the same issues as above. I also doubt that people would ever use a female model - how thin are you gonna make them to compensate for the 20HP?
    • Buffing the move speed and the reload time of the sniper would seriously make it overpowered, especially with you suggesting that body shots should deal way less damage on other guns. The sniper would connect way better than it does now, you'd be able to re-position yourself more easily and peeking/shooting would be way more effective as well, not to mention that it has a huge advantage at range because consistently hitting headshots at range with an AR would be pretty much impossible.

    I don't have much to make my arguments make more sense to you, I just think you are seeing the changes in a wrong way, TTK is not really changed if a HS is a kill. and it's not cs GO the only FPS that HSs are important, You can use siege, as an example, older fps games, like crossfire, point blank, warface. And 20HP is not a big deal considering that the game would be based on HSs, Mainly because you would be a easy target for snipers, and being thicker means you would also be a easier target for bullets on the body.

  • Post by sqroot ().

    This post was deleted by the author themselves ().
  • What I mean is that for body damage being nerfed, players would need to aim on the head, and if you balance well the recoil of weapons, the time to kill a player today, and the time to can get a headshot kill should be the same, especially because you die really fast in a lot of scenarios. //// Point blank was headshot kill with all the weapons on the range the weapon stay 100% of the damage, except some pistols, and the ttk was high as f many times, because if you need to get a headshot and the players can jump, the ttk will just be higher, and while you enemy is trying to hit your head, you can hit his body, it's a skill 1v1 for who hits the head first. And you can also create your playstyle of shooting the body or the head.

    This is kind of a long discussion tho, it's not a truth that can be proven on both sides.

  • Post by sqroot ().

    This post was deleted by the author themselves ().
  • As sqroot stated above pretty well. I'll just remark how 20 hp makes a H U G E difference. Let's talk about the Bizon, which at longe distances deals 13 damage, at a long range you'd literally need 10 shots to kill, while atm you need 8, 2 shots make a LOT of difference. But okay, it's a smg, it's not supposed to kill at long ranges, then let's talk about the scar, since ATM it's a 5 shot-kill at long range (dealling 22 damage), and with 20 more hp, it'd be 6 shots. By increasing the HP, you also increase a lot the TTK.

    If every weapon, or atleast most of them were a one shot kill HS, it would make gunfights more random, since everybody could just land a random HS with the spray of a SMG, while also make most weapons unbalaced. Not only that, let's get back to the bizon again, it would take you 10 shots to kill somebody at a long distance, and while also implementing the feature you suggested, which is to nerf bodyshots, it'd take more than 10 bullets thus making your TTK absurdly gigantic, while someone with an AUG would have a TTK of zero, since it would only be needed 1 shot to get someone down. With that in mind, even though smgs are made to be fast killing weapons at short distance, is it that fair to give them zero chances of getting a kill, even though the user is precise to land every shot, just because it is a smg? ( I asssume SMGs wouldn't have a 1 shot hs feature, since for reasons stated above, they would be way more random at short distances and kinda op).

    I don't really want to offend you nor anything like that, but your fixes, are more like things that would drive this game to a horrible state, but I still agree that SMG's hipfire is kinda of unfun and way too easy to use. (Also HS aren't uneffective, most weapons have a 1.4x multyplier for HS, while others have 1.2x and 1.5x for balance reasons, hs generally decreases a LOT your TTK)

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Sor3y ().

  • I don't really want to get into the technical arguments, but I do want to register my opposition to any attempts to make this game slower, reduce the effectiveness of hipfire, place limitations on character movement or improve sniper rifles at close range.

    SMGs are for CQC run n gun, sniper rifles are for long range. Pick one.