HQ REPORT #3 - Communication reestablished - Transmission incoming

  • and Im saying that call of duty games in general were known to be overpriced, quickly abandoned a year after for a new call of duty and so on.


    Im just stating facts here, sorry if it bothers you so much, being smug about it doesnt magically reinforces your point.

    But i would def pay for it because everythin is better than ironsight. If u had the money would u buy a cod game instead?

    I have more than enough money for any CoD game but I still wouldn't buy them. The new ones just don't have the gameplay feel like the old CoDs.

  • But i would def pay for it because everythin is better than ironsight. If u had the money would u buy a cod game instead?

    I have more than enough money for any CoD game but I still wouldn't buy them. The new ones just don't have the gameplay feel like the old CoDs.

    Hypothetically would u or for modern warfare 4?

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  • I have more than enough money for any CoD game but I still wouldn't buy them. The new ones just don't have the gameplay feel like the old CoDs.

    Hypothetically would u or for modern warfare 4?

    How do I even answer this? Activision has not released much information about it. Could be a car racing RPG adventure game for all I know. If it has the gameplay as the old games then sure I would consider buying and playing it. At this point in time, I'd rather play Ironsight over BO4.

  • It's unlikely that any new CoDs will play like the old games because the engine has changed a lot since then.

    You'll likely see lower FPS, different movement mechanics, different netcode and higher input lag, to name a few. Even CoD4 Remastered played significantly different from the original. That being said, most of these things might not be very noticable for people who didn't play the old games very intensively.

  • and Im saying that call of duty games in general were known to be overpriced, quickly abandoned a year after for a new call of duty and so on.


    Im just stating facts here, sorry if it bothers you so much, being smug about it doesnt magically reinforces your point.

    But i would def pay for it because everythin is better than ironsight. If u had the money would u buy a cod game instead?


    after what they pulled with Blops4?


    hell no

  • and Im saying that call of duty games in general were known to be overpriced, quickly abandoned a year after for a new call of duty and so on.


    Im just stating facts here, sorry if it bothers you so much, being smug about it doesnt magically reinforces your point.

    But i would def pay for it because everythin is better than ironsight. If u had the money would u buy a cod game instead?

    I actually did buy blops4. It was absolute garbage and I got a refund.


    I'll probably give any new modern warfare a shot, but if it's anything like blops4 it will share the same fate.

  • OK, time for my feedback I guess.


    The good


    • The basic game play is excellent. Character movements are slick, bloom and recoil are present without countermanding skill. Gun play is fast and accurate without removing opportunities for counter play.
    • The map design is great. The dynamic elements in maps are a particular highlight, but the overall quality of the map design is very good also.
    • The visuals are to a very high standard for a free2play game. The overall look of the game is one of good quality.
    • The sound stage is not perfect, but it is good.
    • The community management. I know you guys have been beating yourself up on communication lately but honestly, it's not all bad. There aren't that many games I play where I know if I have a question I can jump on the discord and a CM or product team member is likely to respond within minutes. That's actually something that's pretty special.

    The bad


    • The netcode goes without saying, so I don't think I need to add much here.
    • One of my bugbears is that you need to grind to be female in this game. No default female characters is not OK.
    • Despite the map design being great, there are bugs in the execution with invisible barriers, 'sticky' sections of the map and players able to reach unintended areas. QC on these requires improvement.
    • The store is not currently providing value for money, and this quickly disincentivizes people from paying for additional content. There's good content in the game, but the chances of obtaining it seem so slim that it is hard to justify the cost. Greater thought should be given to how to reward those who support the game with their hard-earned cash.

    The ugly


    • Despite the overall high quality of the visuals, the rewards and achievements fall way short. There is no clear consistency or conceptualization to their design, and the quality is more miss than hit.

    The future

    • Despite the high quality of the design of the current maps, it would be nice to see more use of verticality in future designs.
    • It would also be good to have more long and medium terms character goals, an rpg element if you like, to increase the long term replay value of the game and increase retention. Level specific missions, a campaign mode. Something like that.

    There is no tl;dr for this post.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by OhEmGee ().

  • One of my bugbears is that you need to grind to be female in this game. No default female characters is not OK.

    You've made some great points on the game.


    Just so everyone knows, The female characters have hit box issues, which needs to be fixed.

  • I wanna provide some map feedback of my own while we're at it because we don't talk about it often. All of this applies to TDM only.

    The maps I enjoy are: Titan, Mart, Oceanfront, Outpost, Island, Cruise and Airport. I think all of these are mostly good or great maps.

    I dodge Cloud9, Dam, Ironwork and Biolab, but more on that later.

    Firstly: Even the maps I enjoy sometimes suffer from issues with the spawn system, where enemies spawn right next to you (or you right next to enemies). This is annoying for both players: Waiting for the spawn shield to end to kill someone feels terrible and not seeing someone in your spawn and then dying right after spawning also sucks. I'm not sure if this can be improved without making the spawn system too chaotic, but it'd be great if someone could take a look at it. Some maps suffer from this more than others.

    • Titan: If I'm not mistaken then the rocket smoke is client-sided, which makes it a bit difficult to judge whether people can see you. It would be nicer if it was server-sided. If it already is, fine. I could also do without the screen-shake when the rocket starts.
    • Mart: LGTM.
    • Oceanfront: Could do without the pre-ship phase. People mostly just camp on either side and attempt to rush across while under fire.
    • Outpost: I'd prefer it if the sandstorm and the connected screen shake didn't occur.
    • Island: LGTM.
    • Cruise: The middle section is too messy when the deck isn't elevated. People hiding on the elevated deck can also be annoying. The outer sections simply aren't complex enough to avoid the middle section. Maybe keeping the deck elevated and not allowing players on it could fix this. I'm not sure if having those one-way stairs on the parts of the deck where people often camp is such a good idea, but I'm also not sure how to fix it (A second set of stairs? But where?). Clearing them is always annoying because there's only one way up and you need to check two angles. This map also heavily suffers from the spawn issue, since I see it happen every single match. If spawns need fixing on a map, this is it.
    • Airport: The conveyor belt section can be pretty annoying to attack because camping on the belt can be very effective. I don't think it would be better off without the belt, but it'd help if you could see people that get dragged into the room by the belt (i.e. there's no black flaps) and the belt was at the same height as the wall next to it, so you can't prone for cover on the belt. It might also help if you could crouch behind the belt in the rooms that allow you to get dragged into the main room, so you can pick off people on the belt without having to prone down on it. I also feel like this map is too sniper-heavy, maybe some more cover in the main room could help. This map also heavily suffers from the spawn issue. Here's a tiny clip that seekax recorded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfGF0nfwwgg

    Now on the maps that I dodge:

    • Cloud9: I really don't like lane-maps like this. It's very easy to spawn trap people, there's no complexity to the map, meaning there's not much you can do to outplay people and hipfire is very effective on this map. I've seen many matches against good players escalate into a hipfire-trade-fest, which isn't an enjoyable way to play the game. The matches against players that aren't as good escalate into a spawntrap-fest.
    • Dam: This one is very similar to Cloud9, but worse. It suffers from all these issues (except for maybe hipfire being so effective), and spawntrapping is even easier, so easy in fact that I barely ever play a match on this map that doesn't escalate into a spawntrap-fest.
    • Ironwork: Very open, the middle section is very chaotic, the outer sections are boring with little cover and there's almost no way to outplay people because of the huge doors, corridors etc.. You also spend a lot of time running around the map while looking for people.
    • Bio Lab: Bio Lab Feedback


    EDIT: After revisitting Cloud9 I think I'll take back what I said about complexity. The other points remain, though. I also still believe that lack of complexity is an issue on Dam.

    Here's another spawn hell video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHSbUHGLiok

    The post was edited 7 times, last by sqroot ().

  • Wowowowo.... hold it right there. Did you just said League is better than Dota 2?


    Seems like you earned a new enemy today.

  • But i would def pay for it because everythin is better than ironsight. If u had the money would u buy a cod game instead?


    after what they pulled with Blops4?


    hell no

    U make me laugh. I bet u did not see the article about it why mw4 would be created

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  • One of my bugbears is that you need to grind to be female in this game. No default female characters is not OK.

    You've made some great points on the game.


    Just so everyone knows, The female characters have hit box issues, which needs to be fixed.

    Female skins only change the visual appearance of a character not the size of the hitbox. I've done testing with friends to confirm this. If you take a large character like Havoc or Victor Schneider, you can shoot parts of their arm/stomache/legs and bullets will not register because the character models are larger than the hitbox. Whereas if you shoot the air next to Kalli's stomache or arm, bullets will regiser because her character model is smaller than the hitbox model.

  • You've made some great points on the game.


    Just so everyone knows, The female characters have hit box issues, which needs to be fixed.

    Female skins only change the visual appearance of a character not the size of the hitbox. I've done testing with friends to confirm this. If you take a large character like Havoc or Victor Schneider, you can shoot parts of their arm/stomache/legs and bullets will not register because the character models are larger than the hitbox. Whereas if you shoot the air next to Kalli's stomache or arm, bullets will regiser because her character model is smaller than the hitbox model.

    Far point and I'm glad you've done your testing. I've heard different from other peoples reliable testing, thats why I brought it up.

  • Specifically the tacticals being perm that you mentioned. I believe they should keep them as they are currently HOWEVER once you specifically MASTER them. You can purchase a Gold one for example and they are a perm buy.

  • I'm a happy camper this whole netcode issue is what drove me away from the game, thinking someone was using hacks within the game when found out it could be related to the netcode issue. I'm happy they're working on this and its their major priority because im sure they noticed the decline in people playing this since release and how it effects peoples experience when playing.....


    So, you won't be hearing from me saying where are new guns, skins, and new modes because would rather you fix the netcode first and once that's done then new content is welcomed.....


    Unfortunately, remember how my experience was playing the game in its current state and not going to play untill the netcode is fixed....

  • The netcode is a must fix soon, I stream this game daily and have tried every Assualt rifle, SMG and Sniper; Haven't gotten around trying the lmg's though. However, with many many games under my belt can come up with some QOL improvements and Suggestions that hopefully will be implemented once they have released the netcode fix.


    Quality of Life Improvements


    - Be able to avoid players from matchmaking

    - Fix the highlight feed, doesn't show the player modles

    - Rework Hitboxes! - Hit detection needs work; However this also could be from the netcode

    - Having the option to play with new players once you leave matchmaking and rematch-make - There have been many many time were i would like to match make with a whole new lobby and not the same players....this is frustrating especially when you are having horrible games...leaving the lobby and starting the match making didn't work for me still matched me with the same players.

    - Cook Grenades! maybe up for debate

    - Camo unlocks are pretty bland, would be better if the way you unlocked them was similar to black ops 2 camo missions.

    - Sprint - when sprinting sometimes it cuts in and out like im walking and sprinting then walking again this is annoying, could be improved upon...idk


    Anyways, this are my thoughts disagree or agree doesn't matter too me just wanted to share my thoughts..

  • I don't think I've had an issue with sprint before, what do you mean?

    It's also been a long time since I've had hitbox issues.

    As for cooking grenades, I think I prefer it as it - unavoidable deaths from explosions suck.

    Not sure if the game has enough players to implement a system where you avoid specific people.

  • I think he may be experience lag where there is a few frame lag on sprinting

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  • Netcode fix in works, expect to hear about the next version in the coming weeks.
    Smaller/Item patches are a natural cycle of the game and happen because the rest of team is concentrating on the netcode.
    We'll improve our communication with the community.
    We will talk more about the future ... in the future.

    Its been 40 days. Are you alright? Are you doing fine? Whats up the_Director ?

  • To add some more to my post about maps, here's another nice clip where I'm abusing the hell out of the spawn system (and inpenetrateable glass!) on airport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItS2CKjuqc8

    Again, I can't think of a solution to this (except for the glass of course - having stronger penetration would be nice), but maybe someone smarter than me can come up with one, so I'm raising awareness for it despite that.

    Please excuse the music, that's part of the recording ;)

  • To add some more to my post about maps, here's another nice clip where I'm abusing the hell out of the spawn system (and inpenetrateable glass!) on airport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItS2CKjuqc8

    Again, I can't think of a solution to this (except for the glass of course - having stronger penetration would be nice), but maybe someone smarter than me can come up with one, so I'm raising awareness for it despite that.

    Please excuse the music, that's part of the recording ;)

    u mean better algorithm for spawning and having full penetration mechanic

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  • To add some more to my post about maps, here's another nice clip where I'm abusing the hell out of the spawn system (and inpenetrateable glass!) on airport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItS2CKjuqc8

    Again, I can't think of a solution to this (except for the glass of course - having stronger penetration would be nice), but maybe someone smarter than me can come up with one, so I'm raising awareness for it despite that.

    Please excuse the music, that's part of the recording ;)

    u mean better algorithm for spawning and having full penetration mechanic

    While I agree with penetration, I don't think fixing the spawns is that easy. You can't just spawn people all over the map because that would result in chaos, and the game likely already chooses "the optimal" spawn position by some sensible metric (e.g. furthest average distance from every enemy or furthest distance from closest enemy, probably the former).

    So introducing more spawns might lead to chaos, and there's not much you can do to find an "optimal" spawn - in the clip above a switch to the other side would likely have resulted in people spawning next to enemies, which is also undesirable.

    Maybe the maps where this regularly occurs are just inherently broken in terms of map layout for TDM.

  • u mean better algorithm for spawning and having full penetration mechanic

    While I agree with penetration, I don't think fixing the spawns is that easy. You can't just spawn people all over the map because that would result in chaos, and the game likely already chooses "the optimal" spawn position by some sensible metric (e.g. furthest average distance from every enemy or furthest distance from closest enemy, probably the former).

    So introducing more spawns might lead to chaos, and there's not much you can do to find an "optimal" spawn - in the clip above a switch to the other side would likely have resulted in people spawning next to enemies, which is also undesirable.

    Maybe the maps where this regularly occurs are just inherently broken in terms of map layout for TDM.

    Then how does spawn work in other AAA fps games :) u can feel the difference

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  • While I agree with penetration, I don't think fixing the spawns is that easy. You can't just spawn people all over the map because that would result in chaos, and the game likely already chooses "the optimal" spawn position by some sensible metric (e.g. furthest average distance from every enemy or furthest distance from closest enemy, probably the former).

    So introducing more spawns might lead to chaos, and there's not much you can do to find an "optimal" spawn - in the clip above a switch to the other side would likely have resulted in people spawning next to enemies, which is also undesirable.

    Maybe the maps where this regularly occurs are just inherently broken in terms of map layout for TDM.

    Then how does spawn work in other AAA fps games :) u can feel the difference

    You could break the spawn system in every single FPS I've ever played, especially Call of Duty, which was the worst of both worlds: Chaotic and broken.

    I think map design is what reduces most issues, not a "better spawn algorithm".

  • Then how does spawn work in other AAA fps games :) u can feel the difference

    You could break the spawn system in every single FPS I've ever played, especially Call of Duty, which was the worst of both worlds: Chaotic and broken.

    I think map design is what reduces most issues, not a "better spawn algorithm".

    Well rip ironsight lol but like a map like rust in mw2 seems like a regular size for ironsight (maybe a bit bigger) isnt that bad.

    In ironsight u could basically spawn trap the full team by keeping the distance of moving their spawn and also have the light of sight to the spawn. Anyways the spawn system is weird asf

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  • You could break the spawn system in every single FPS I've ever played, especially Call of Duty, which was the worst of both worlds: Chaotic and broken.

    I think map design is what reduces most issues, not a "better spawn algorithm".

    Well rip ironsight lol but like a map like rust in mw2 seems like a regular size for ironsight (maybe a bit bigger) isnt that bad.

    In ironsight u could basically spawn trap the full team by keeping the distance of moving their spawn and also have the light of sight to the spawn. Anyways the spawn system is weird asf

    You can do that in CoD as well - I remember that people posted 200 kill gameplays of MW2 and such back in 2010 where they basically just camped a spawn for the whole duration of the match. Probably not as easily, since CoD had more spawns, but this also leads to more chaos.

  • Well rip ironsight lol but like a map like rust in mw2 seems like a regular size for ironsight (maybe a bit bigger) isnt that bad.

    In ironsight u could basically spawn trap the full team by keeping the distance of moving their spawn and also have the light of sight to the spawn. Anyways the spawn system is weird asf

    You can do that in CoD as well - I remember that people posted 200 kill gameplays of MW2 and such back in 2010 where they basically just camped a spawn for the whole duration of the match. Probably not as easily, since CoD had more spawns, but this also leads to more chaos.

    True but the maps still are the same size and spawns have gotten better across each title.

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  • Well, it's a joke at this point...

    The joke is #soon // #verythoon over :)

    I can tell you we are pushing the_Director everyday for the HQ Report! He is also asking a lot for feedback! So all these backs and forths take a lot of time!


    But it's almost ready!

    Just wait a little bit more :) :) :)


    PS: Trust the cat ;)

  • Im sure the artist devs has to make pictures for the next report too xD

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  • He is also asking a lot for feedback!

    I got some feedback for the_Director , Flloyd :
    A:

    The updates are likely to be shorter from now on, but they should arrive more frequently.

    Nobody said the updates were shrinked to 0 characters.


    B:

    Letting go of a nice CM in a game, that has not gotten an update that improved the fundamentals of the game ever, seems like i want to ask where he is headed, apparently that game gets more love.


    C:
    So ppl would like some updates, why dont you just give them low effort, high impact updates, like releasing a new gun to try out, actually balancing the guns (i mean most of them are fine, but if you buff/nerf some of them, people may want to try them out - and getting more playtime out of your game.) or releasing some other attachments etc.

    I mean balancing is literally altering some numbers in the config ffs. And the AK12 is still beyond usable compared to every other gun. You can make justified hack allegations towards players that top a lobby with that gun. Its that bad. (not saying they do, but i mean they gotta be beasts to kill sb even once)


    After all this wont solve the folling problems, but give something new:
    - glitches on maps

    - not being able to map a key to loadout 4 and 5

    - drones doing all sorts of weird stuff when you die

    - netcode

    - bugs

    You might need to adjust stuff anyway when the netcode patch hits in 2120, so why not start now?

  • Nah tbh adding a "new gun to tryout" is just another way of saying "yea we're gonna fix the problems eventually but keep trying out these new features until we never fix these problems" and it just evolves into a pay to win game. These "new features" just take up small but useful time they could be using to fix actual problems. If I was the Ironsight dev team, I would just trust the customer loyalty and good relations they already have and focus all their attention on the gameplay rather than the game features so that, in the long run, this game becomes a staple in the FPS community come Steam release.


    - ChefK (in-game name)