HQ REPORT #3 - Communication reestablished - Transmission incoming

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    Mercenaries,

    It's time for an update. Get your coffee and start reading!

    If you are wondering who I am, you can check my previous update here.

    Now that we're caught up, let's talk!

    Today

    I want to start by addressing the main concerns and telling you what's going on.

    I've been reading through forums, reddit and discord and have seen three major concerns: technical issues, the content of the patches, and lack of communication. Let's go through all these one by one.

    1) Technical Issues

    Of course, the major topic here is the Netcode. To quickly recap, the way the game was handled in terms of server-client communication was optimized for Korea where the internet connections are great, but it caused issues in the rest of the world. The Cruise patch in September was meant to change this, but it didn't work the way it was intended and, as a result, we had extensive downtime and had to roll back this feature.

    To explain the status now, I've good news and bad news.

    • Bad News #1: The Netcode needs fixing and it's a difficult task for developers.
    • Bad News #2: We don't want to break the game again, but internal testing is also insufficient.

    Doesn't look optimistic, I know. However!

    • Good News #1: We have an internal patch that's being tested!
    • Good News #2: We will have a public test server to keep live servers safe while testing with as many people as we can!

    ETA? None at the moment. It depends entirely on the internal test results. The sooner we feel comfortable with the results, the sooner we can start.

    Expect more news from us in the coming days.

    But Netcode isn't the only technical issue we face. There are some additional ones that are tied to the netcode. There are others that aren't directly related but aren't being handled as fast as we could because the focus is on the netcode.

    These will also be tackled or finalized once the netcode fix is in place.

    2) Patch Content

    I noticed that some of you felt adding new skins to the game while there are issues was a bad sign. I understand how it feels, but please rest assured that there is no secret strategy here. As mentioned, the development team is focused mostly on the netcode. However, the graphical content released is created by different people in the team. The alternative would be to only let the relative coders work and tell everyone else to stop, which wouldn't make sense at all. Alternatively, we could tell more people to develop features and so on, but it would delay the netcode. So these patches are the natural result of the netcode focus.

    3) Lack of Communication

    This is something we'd definitely like to improve.

    We'll start with HQ Reports. The updates are likely to be shorter from now on, but they should arrive more frequently.

    No promises at the moment, but expect something between once a month or two. It will depend on how much time it takes and how much relevant things we have to talk about.

    We'll also be monitoring your feedback as usual and see what else we can do.

    Another topic I want to talk about before moving to comments on the future of the game is the Ranked System.

    As you are probably aware, the Ranked System didn't work as intended and "the intentions" weren't very clear in the first place. Therefore, we will temporarily remove the system next week.

    Ranked matches will of course come back and before it happens, we'll be sharing some information about it.

    Tomorrow

    I know some of you are also curious about the game's future, what things will be added, and how things will change. At this point I don't have many details I can disclose, but I'd like to ask you not to be disheartened by the problems of today. This is a long journey we've set unto and early issues are frustrating, but better to be found and addressed now than later. As I wrote somewhere on forums, I'm looking forward to the days where we'll all go hipster and have sentences like "Back in OBT...".

    Anyway, back on the topic future. After the netcode and following fixes, our list includes a few things that were already shared with you: going on Steam and releasing the game.

    On the game side, of course, we will always look at more content: new items, new maps, and new modes.

    But it's not just the new toys of course, we will also be looking at improving the existing features, working on balance, game mechanics etc.

    There are several improvements we are talking and thinking about. I'm also aware that you have suggestions, expectations etc. They aren't ignored, but there isn't much to say precisely at this moment. These will be separate topics we'll discuss further in the future.

    I'm looking forward to the future of the game and seeing through the evolution with you all. I'd like to hear any feedback, so I invite you to share your thoughts: Short, long, positive, negative, all are welcome.

    TL;DR:

    • Netcode fix in works, expect to hear about the next version in the coming weeks.
    • Smaller/Item patches are a natural cycle of the game and happen because the rest of team is concentrating on the netcode.
    • We'll improve our communication with the community.
    • We will talk more about the future ... in the future.

    If you have any questions or if you would like to provide some feedback, feel free to answer on this forum post and I will be answering as many questions as I can.


    See you on the next report!


    the_Director

  • Well , that is not HQ report... There is nothing new at all. If you would want to post a real HQ report you bring any of developers himself to answer those questions. Also why there are no any pictures or videos from HeadQuarters showing that somebody is actually working on this game?

    going on Steam and releasing the game.

    Will it be a region restricted version i guess?


    Any coming balance fixes pointed here? Yeah, nice team balance btw.

    Any fighting cheaters announcements? Like many other games do posting what they actually do to stop cheaters.


    P.S. i think developers are busy working on other publisher version now so any fixes are postponed?

    P.S.S. If network code is taking to much time so just postpone it, fix (replays per example), add (weapons, drones, maps), improve (balance, anti-cheat) other stuff and move to Steam, make money, hire more staff to finally fix network code.


    added later:

    Quote

    Therefore, we will temporarily remove the system next week.

    So next week there will be a new patch? Will it include geo block? I wonder because other publisher has not announced anything yet and we (players) just do not want to lose an access to this game until other version is published...

    Do not play against cheaters and hackers, it is waste of your time and health.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Vodzigor ().

  • Hey there, I started to play from first alpha wave, but stopped months ago because there was nothing for me interesting.

    I have few questions and would like to know answers cuz I'm kinda still attached on news of this game because I CARE


    1: On Steam, will it have aweful country restrictions and force some countries to play on Russian servers or smth like that because i heard that Russians going to publish this game?
    2: Will our progress be transferred on Steam version?
    3: Will devs add deep weapon customization? (Grips, more scope and laser types/styles, tons of things that exists now) cuz... you know, its 2019 and all we get in updates (once per eternity) are stupid skins..

  • Are there any plans on tweaking the S-Mine and the Claymores? Specifically the instant disappearance the moment the player dies. Now I know on the developers side its much easier to tie the S-Mines and the Claymores and pretty much every placeable for that matter to the players character themselves. Hence why the mines magically disappear the moment the placer dies. I personally hate this particular trait due to how I play, fast and loose and since "Ironsight" is primarily a fast paced FPS the mines are basically pointless to use unless your going to be camping and even then its lackluster because the spawnpoints flip every 3 seconds.

    So even though it may cause some chaos in game I would like to see a change to the placeable explosives so they last at LEAST 2 to 3 lives if not till u place another or it gets destroyed.

    Ideally they would stay till someone blows them up but I know that can cause some issues however I suppose there could be a timer attached to them, so after 10 minutes they disappear or however it can be changed.


    So I don't know about the rest of you but I like placing a mine and forgetting about it and moving on.

  • Are there any plans on tweaking the S-Mine and the Claymores? Specifically the instant disappearance the moment the player dies. Now I know on the developers side its much easier to tie the S-Mines and the Claymores and pretty much every placeable for that matter to the players character themselves. Hence why the mines magically disappear the moment the placer dies. I personally hate this particular trait due to how I play, fast and loose and since "Ironsight" is primarily a fast paced FPS the mines are basically pointless to use unless your going to be camping and even then its lackluster because the spawnpoints flip every 3 seconds.

    So even though it may cause some chaos in game I would like to see a change to the placeable explosives so they last at LEAST 2 to 3 lives if not till u place another or it gets destroyed.

    Ideally they would stay till someone blows them up but I know that can cause some issues however I suppose there could be a timer attached to them, so after 10 minutes they disappear or however it can be changed.


    So I don't know about the rest of you but I like placing a mine and forgetting about it and moving on.

    THANK YOU!

    Mines should remain planted (or till u plant another) because its very fast game, and spawning is also cancerly annoying which should be fixed too in TDMs. Mine is not granade right? that u can throw in random spot, u have to plant it on effective spot and most likely you will die trying or just plant and die after... and mine is gone.

    Also all tacticals should be purchasable for permanent use, now they are only for rent. Thats why ppl never use them only 1% maybe, just to try them.

  • I believe this is a step in the right direction, transparency matters above everything else. The game really has potential and although the playerbase is dropping I believe it'll have a second chance to shine again once it releases on steam. Who said there's nothing called second impressions?


    Also, the playtesting server is a great idea since there are quite a few games which do this to keep the public servers stable and not introducing new bugs and glitches by directly dropping updates into the public server.


    However, I do have a few suggestions (apologies for the wall of text):

    • Personally I don't think netcode is as big an issue as people make it out to be, and from my experience people have fairly good connections typically - there are a few exceptions in some matches but otherwise it works, I mean I've seen worse netcodes in other games. And also a shift from tcp to udp won't magically fix all the lag and desync, it would fix the ghosting issues but the server tick rates still need to be upped to fix the kills behind cover/walls.
    • Adding a killcam would be a really great way to solve a lot of the what the f moments when you get killed, as you know it's probably just you messed up once you watch it - or you can judge from the killcam that the person was probably lagging. This is extremely helpful as even if the netcode isn't fixed, the implementation of killcams would drastically reduce the 'netcode' complaints. I mean the best play at the end of the match does prove the technology exists for a killcam.
    • Now onto how to fix the playerbase. The competitive scene is what draws the most attention to games (for instance, take a look at csgo/lol those are mainly so popular because of the allure of the competitive scene) so I'd say as soon as the netcode is up and running, the ranked should be fixed. I am not sure if any changes would be made to ranked after it's patched back in but scorestreaks and emotes need to 100% be removed from ranked. Nothing like being peppered with bullets from the heli in snd, or some blade drone killing you where you are hiding from across the map - this may be subjective but that in no way is fair and not really a show of skills if drones do the work for you. It is fine in public matches but ranked? Come on, that's a playground for pure raw skill. I mean it is 'search' and 'destroy' afterall, what's the point if the whole search aspect is taken away by uav recon. Also the emotes, especially YES! emote is about 2 seconds long and quickly gives away positions behind corners as it springs into 3rd person giving unfair advantages to the one using the emote...I'm not even sure why emotes are allowed to be played while the match is going on in the first place.
    • Also the allure of competitive can be increased though in-game items, say if there would be 'seasons' where each month or every 3 weeks the leaderboards are reset and the top 10 would get rewarded.Those rewards can be handsome amounts of chips, special cosmetic items only available through this leaderboards system, or even rarer skins so that it'd give people the incentive to play and actually fight for placing in the leaderboards - which in turn means more and more casual players looking into competitive in pursuit of the lucrative rewards and then ranked won't be a ghost town anymore.
    • Not really a suggestion, but are there any plans to advertise the game once it releases on steam? I never ever see any advertisements for ironsight anywhere so was just wondering if upon release some efforts would be made on that front after ironing out all the problems with ironsight? Especially since those twitch streamers and youtubers spread the word quick and helps attract massive amounts of people.
    • While on the topic of cosmetics, I believe if instead of supply boxes with those very minuscule chances of getting whatever item someone wants - if we had a way to directly purchase items then a lot more people would be buying stuff, which in turn means lots of profit. As a guy would spend rather 100 dollars knowing they will 100% get the item they want than spending 100 dollars and getting only duplicates. I'd have paid my soul for that phantom helmet because I love the game so much but as soon as I saw it was inside of a supply box, I immediately went nope and just moved on.
    • Last but not the least, as you have mentioned in your report, there is a separate team creating content like skins? Why not have that content team make a new weapon or two as I'm sure most of the veteran players have more or less have tried out all weapons to death and the novelty of using new weapons has worn off. Something like a recurve bow or the fan favourite bolt action sniper rifle like the intervention, or a new assault rifle like the acr or xm8 would add so much to play around with until netcode patches arrive! At this point, I think rather than the maps - it's the weapons that got stale. Speaking of maps, what's wrong with releasing the maps that were available in the korean servers? Could always just add improvements or change the map later on instead of trying to make it 'perfect' before releasing.


    These are just one man's thoughts anyways, I really do love the game a lot even more than recent cods as it brings back the feeling of that golden era of cod again while still being it's own unique thing. That is something no other game on the market has right now and I'm sure if everything is done right - ironsight will be going places.

  • Although I don't agree with you that competitive draws players to a game, and have no interest in competitive play myself, I don't see anything wrong with most of your suggestions. Not sure on giving rewards for leaderboard positions, unless those rewards are unique to, and restricted to, comp play.


    I don't want to be forced into playing comp games due to FOMO.

  • Hey everyone, reading the comments and just wanted to drop a couple points.


    1) This HQ report is only covering certain topics. It's meant to give you an acknowledgement of certain situations and an overview of where we are.

    2) This is the first HQ report after a while but I promise you, next similar communication won't take that long. That's why I didn't want to put too many topics in it.


    So this isn't an exhaustive list of important topics. Other topics aren't ignored or dismissed, they will be in future communications.

    Please keep the feedback up!

  • Would be good to get some position statements from the team on mechanics like hipfire and bhopping etc, which I personally love, but others have a gripe against.


    If there is any intention to modify these aspects of the game, I'd rather know sooner than later.


    Something to consider for the next update, perhaps.

  • I don't see the point in the developers clarifying their position on issues like these way early before an update except for extended discussions, which I don't see happening, considering how this game is published.

    There's so much garbage floating around on these forums, if they wanted to be consistent, they'd have to explicitly disregard a lot of garbage, which would make many people very unhappy. As a dev (or team member that has to moderate the garbage), I'd rather not deal with the resulting abuse, especially when the developers aren't actively engaging in community discussion all the time.

    Only announce things that you actually plan to change soon if you can't create an active and well moderated space for discussion with developers (not just members of the publishing team).

  • the_Director




    Can u answer this so everyone knows what will be considered to be changed


    is the game’s meta (goal) a hipfire skilled fps like csgo, both like CoD, or (prob not) ads skilled like battlefield? Im not a or your marketing director, but i can tell that by not emphasizing this meta (ie if hipfire meta then it should have secondary hipfire spread like csgo so hipfiring doesnt have to be point and click-hold fest for this game’s small maps) this would not win in a sale competition between other AAA fps games and other decent fps games (ie black squad). There is also a rumor that call of duty modern warfare 4 is being discussed for development and that game could steal players from ironsight


    I just feel like the devs are just throwing ideas in development, not making a niche for ironsight, and/or even not sure what they are actually doing for the game and just need some quick cash.

    <3Misfire<3

    <3Yellow Star with dark Background<3

    <3Celebrations DSR<3

    <3Quickscoping most of the time<3

    <3ironsight_20180524115517.png<3

    <3as.jpg<3


    giphy.gifgiphy.gif


    giphy.gif

  • What are you gonna do against Bunny Hopping its sucks

    Please no. Why do you even want this?

    Maybe he is sick of playing a game that is casual noob-friendly where people run around with bugged OP weapons like AR57, prone spam and get headshots while banging their head in the keyboard.


    The main problems with the game and other than people leaving because of the netcode is because it's very easy for casuals and noobs, there is little or no skill gap between noobs and pros, so pros get bored and leave. Snipers are OP and you can run around with them like it's some SMG and quickscope while running, proning has to either be removed or have its animation time increased so it's really slow and noobs don't spam it when they feel like they're getting killed even with AR57 and hipfire spread has to be made strong so people actually start using the scopes they install on their weapons.. or just remove scopes from the game and add other attachments like grips or something that will be more beneficial.

    That's the problem with the game - it's very mediocre, boring and forgettable, if they don't change that people will get bored even if the game has the best netcode in the world. It's a CoD clone and CoD games are made to last 6 months then the new one comes out and people start playing that, a game that tries to copy a mediocre gameplay made to last 6 months can't expect people to play it for more if it stays the same.

    You will see when even netcode doesn't keep the people playing. There needs to be some big changes to the gameplay and to punish noobs and commend pros and give pros some actual reason to keep playing, like some hard weapons that only 1-2% of the playerbase can handle properly.




    Yes, the game needs something to make it stand out from the rest. If it's always a CoD clone, it will always live in the shadow of CoD and people will prefer CoD over Ironsight. The current dumbed-down gameplay is an insult to pro players who want to play on another level... or is it that the game is pro-unfriendly and only casual noob-friendly instead so pros aren't even welcome?

    A game that commends pro players is one that doesn't allow casual noobs to use broken weapons or imbalanced mechanics to get ahead of pro players.

  • some ideas I have :/ is that you need a death camera to record the moment of death, to document with more bases a hacker, a voting system to take out a hacker, or report a hacker quickly in real time, to jump from the stairs before going up or down, voting to draw a player in AFK, new maps and tournaments. greetings from: kokorote.

    (written with the google translator) :thumbup:

  • You mention that this game has a small skill gap between pros and noobs. That's true considering you came from very competitive games like CS. How will catering the gameplay to only benefit pros help bring massive players to the game? you can't deny that many gamers play for fun, not always for competition. If Ironsight was 100% competitive, casual players will come check this game out and quit soon after when they have a 0.1kda and 10% win rate in the first hour. Keeping the gameplay casual will help bring the game to the mass market.



    Even though there's a smaller skill gap, that doesn't mean a skill gap does not exist between noobs and pros. First of all, pros don't use the AR57 and rarely drop shot. 90% of Ironsight comp players use the Aug or Blaser because they are an all round better weapon than the AR57 in most situations. Dropshotting is not as strong as you think. People in the game aim for the chest because headshot multipliers are not great (CoD mechanic, rip on me all you want). So proning mid gun fight just sets up an easy headshot for your opponent. I notice most good players go for jumpshots while ADS (just like pro CoD players). Snipers are definitely strong but they will always lose out against a 1v2 scenario. Can say the same about CS and blacksquad when snipers zoom in instantly and have no sway.

    I believe this game is good BECAUSE of its CoD roots. Like I've said before, Ironsight has the same gameplay mechanics that made the older Call Of Duty games so successful. Unless Activision releases their next CoD game to be f2p, long term supported and based on BO2 mechanics, there is not a single game like Ironsight on the market. League of Legends is considered a "Dota Clone," but its more popular and successful than Dota.

    You clearly have not played any Call of Duty games if you think Ironsight's gameplay mechanics are so unplayable. Let's take Modern Warefare 2 for example. Quickscoping was popular. UMP45 smg kill people in 3 shots at any range. Dangerclose/1 man army allowed you to have infinite grenade launcher ammo. Drop shotting was everywhere. Chopper gunner killsteak was an OP version of hellbird. Model 1887 shotgun and Commando perk killed people across the map pre-nerf. Somehow with Ironsight's "poor gameplay" + these mechanics I mentioned, MW2 was still one of the most successful and widely celebrated cod games ever.

    Everyone has their own tastes.
    I don't want to sound mean but I honestly don't think Ironsight is a game for you or will ever become a game you will enjoy.

    zLikVxS.jpg

    The post was edited 3 times, last by lionking ().

  • When people go prone, I shoot them. I expect them to go prone, to bhop, to corner camp, to circle strafe, to pick meta loadouts, to do whatever they can to win. And if they beat me, it's because I wasn't good enough to beat them.


    I'm not going to waste a second of my time complaining that it was unfair, or OP or cheap. Those are just excuses. I wasn't good enough, and that's that.


    The more options the game gives you to move and act quickly in unpredictable ways, the higher the skill level of the game. The greater the accuracy of the weapons, the greater the effect skill has over randomness in the outcome of fire fights. Complaining about these things in the name of competitive play makes no sense to me at all.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by OhEmGee ().

  • Games like Counter-Strike and Alliance of Valiant Arms have a huge skill gap and noobs can play, but pros will always destroy them.

    I played Counter-Strike 1.0 since 1999 and I've sucked at that game from when I started and was 7 years old until I was around 16 when I finally started getting good. And yet, people have always been attracted to Counter-Strike, even nowadays, it's one of the most popular FPS games.


    I played AVA since 2010 and back then the in-game currency that was earned was so low that unless you place #1 or #2 each game, especially in Demolition, you will run out of money, and you needed money to repair your weapons and armor - head, chest, boots, gloves, etc. If you didn't repair your weapon after each match, it tends to "malfunction" and changes recoil patterns and stuff, sometimes it doesn't shoot immediately when you want it to, that kind of stuff. So I sucked at this game for a good 2-3 years, and I always ran out of money and that meant I couldn't repair my equipment so I was forced to play with the default weapon and armor that didn't break or start a new account just so I can play with other weapons and armors that I liked, so I did the second and went through at least 4 accounts before I started getting better and the game started rewarding more in-game currency. That's because I was addicted to the game and I didn't mind starting over if it meant playing the game, because it was simply THAT good. When I talked to other AVA players from 2009-2010 they also said they have been making multiple accounts to continue enjoying the game... If this was the current situation in Ironsight and you had to abandon your account every 5 months, would you keep playing or just go to the forums and complain? Somehow I feel like you will quickly abandon your loyalty and either leave or stop playing and just complain for this to be changed.

    I started playing Call of Duty 1 in 2003, then Call of Duty 2 in 2005 and the last one I played was Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare, that's where I quit, because the gameplay of CoD was becoming boring to me. It was fun when I was around 11-13, but after that it became too easy and idiotic. So you're wrong, I have played Call of Duty games, in fact I played the all-time classics, not the garbage they spew now. I also used to play a lot of twitch shooters like Quake 3 Arena, Unreal Tournament 99, Unreal Tournament 2004 and I learned a lot of pinpoint accuracy from them too, but I got bored with them and switched to classic shooters like Counter-Strike 1.6 and Source which were the only popular ones at the time.


    When I started playing Ironsight, I used to play Ghost in the Shell First Assault as my main game and Ironsight looked similar, especially in the trailers - weapon customization, drones/skills, futuristic setting. It seemed just right. My game was shutting down and this one was just launching, I thought this was destiny. I started playing Ironsight and it was OK for the first few weeks, but after that it started feeling very off. I couldn't put my finger on it, but I watched some YouTuber called EdenFPS who was doing a video on the game and he said how Airplane map was the same or very similar to some Black Ops 2 map, then he also said Ironsight is a carbon copy of Call of Duty Black Ops 2.


    And this is when it hit me - that's when I understood what was off about the game - I haven't played CoD games since around 2005 so I had completely forgotten what they felt like and Ghost in the Shell First Assault brought weapon customization, skills and sprinting to a game which gunplay was like Counter-Strike and Battlefield - with hard recoils and hipfire was useless. So when I started playing Ironsight, I didn't notice one bit that it was a CoD clone. But after I realized it, I understood why I can't enjoy it any longer - it's too casual and noob friendly. Add all the bugs, imbalances and the netcode and you see noobs taking top spots in the ranking with ease, because there are noob-friendly OP guns like AR57, prone spam allows the noobs to survive most encounters, no HP meter and HP regen means that as soon as the noob survives the encounter, they HP fills up in a couple of seconds and they continue to PWN around until they run out of ammo or finally meet someone with the overwhelms them and all the noob tactics and noob-friendly in-game features can't help them.

    What's the point of developing a good aim and exercising my pinpoint accuracy if a noob with a noob gun can one-shot me and he isn't even trying? That's like studying astrophysics for 20 years just to be accepted into NASA and when you finally get accepted, you see some 18 year old kids in there too, but they haven't been busting their asses for 20 years like you, they are just the director's nephews who really liked Luke Skywalker and now want to be just like him. That's how insulting it feels when you get PWNed by noobs in Ironsight. That's why I quit playing Call of Duty back in the day - it was too casual and unrewarding waste of my time. I quit games like Quake and UT, because they don't have a future - only tryhards play them and it's really tiring experience to keep trying to be good and yet play the same games from 20 years ago.

    There is no point in being competitive with snipers, because snipers in Ironsigth just run around the map and quickscope, most of the snipers don't even have skills, they just exploit the easy sniping to feel good about themselves, same goes for AR users and SMG users are the biggest joke in the game. There is literally no difference whether you use AR or SMG, only the run speed is different, snipers are actually almost the same as ARs and SMGs, because their mobility is just the same and quickscoping makes snipers like quirky shotguns. There is no point in being competitive in the only serious mode - Search & Destroy , because of the HP regen. You try really hard to take out your enemies, but your enemy is an AR57 noob who prones when he feels like he is dying, so he prones and kills you at 5% HP, 5 seconds later, he is at 100% HP and the fact that you died means absolutely nothing, your sacrifice was pointless. In a normal shooter with competitive scene and a large following there is 100 HP and if you're left on 5 HP, that's it, you can't heal up, you're supposed to try and make-do with that.

    The game not only suffers from bad netcode, which is said to be under construction now, but there are bugs, imbalanced weapons and mechanics like prone that don't make sense the way the are. Even if netcode is fixed the game will be niche among niches among niches. The way it is it has no chance for a competitive scene, I've seen the so-called "tournamens" on Twitch - they get like 50 viewers.... that's just sad. And it's not because of bad netcode or only skin updates, it's because the game is incapable of having a competitive scene with those casual noob-friendly mechanics that a couple of you love defending, because you can't play anything else. I don't even play Counter-Strike anymore, because when I started getting good and understood how the game works, it got boring - there are few useful weapons and recoil patterns and grenade spots are very easy to learn, after that the game becomes boring too.

    Ironsight has a chance to become a competitive game if it actually starts caring about pro players and not treating them like they are unwelcome, because it's pampering to the noob portion of the game which from what I see here are people that are unwilling to improve and want to "WIN" with zero effort only so they can feel good about themselves. The real challenge in an FPS game is when you start, you get your behind pounded for about 1000 hours before you start getting good, and a good game like this will keep you interested and wanting to play, not discourage you.



  • Everyone has their own tastes.
    I don't want to sound mean but I honestly don't think Ironsight is a game for you or will ever become a game you will enjoy.

    .. To continue what I wanted to say since there is a 1000 character limit...


    The skill gap is non-existent, keep believing whatever makes you feel good on the inside. A noob with AR57 can destroy a pro player who plays 20 hours a days and only sleeps for 4.



    You will see that even a fixed netcode won't bring back lost players. Let's say they nerf AR57 and fix all the clipping bugs, all the bugs people are currently having with the launcher (if this game ever makes it to Steam it better dump that launcher in favor of Steam-only updating methods) and people still won't come back, because this type of gameplay gets easily boring, there is no real punishment, when you die in TDM, you don't have to wait 3, 5, 7 seconds to respawn, you respawn instantly. There is no HP gauge and everyone is entitled to free, indefinite and automatic HP regeneration.

    Just know that keeping the game like this will not improve if it stays like this forever. If you're OK with it being like this and slowly dying, then go right ahead and you and your casual, playing for fun friend OhEmGee can threaten to leave if the game, havens forbid, changes to be more competitive scene-oriented.

    Because what can potentially happen next?


    - Netcode comes close to being release.

    - They open PTS and invite volunteer players to test the netcode patch before they officially release it.
    - Game launches on Steam in Early Access.

    - They keep adding skins and last bits of Korean content.

    - Bugs since OBT in 2017 continue to linger.

    - Gameplay mechanics remain casual and noob-friendly.

    - New players that see the game on Steam leave soon after they started, because the Steam crowd is super toxic and doesn't mess around, also they are affected by the gameplay mechanics, overabundance of skins, poor team balance and modest player numbers.

    So before this game reaches Steam it has to fix all those issues, otherwise it will get review bombed and left to rot in oblivion.

  • If you are honestly getting owned by noobs just because they had an AR57 and hit the deck then I don't think the game's mechanics are the issue.


    No matter, the army of invincible belly-flopping SMG noobs seems to be avoiding the servers I play on... for now.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by OhEmGee ().

  • Irony_Sigh

    Man, that's a lot of text to inflate some very weak arguments that essentially boil down to "I don't like it but I'll pretend that there's some objective reason why noobs easily win encounters".

    The observation that newbies perform as well as good players is nonsense - and your entire argument is based on it. Not a single match I've played in this game reflects that observation; good players consistently pubstomp almost every match.

    Even the arguments in your text that aren't observations are often nonsense with many counter-examples that you could easily come up with yourself. Honestly, I feel insulted that you would want people to read all that nonsense while having spent so little time thinking about your own arguments.


    But I'll go ahead and bite. Here's some quick bullet points to get you started:


    • >That's because I was addicted to the game and I didn't mind starting over if it meant playing the game, because it was simply THAT good.

    This is a fallacy. It might very well be for nostalgic reasons - when you're younger you tend to enjoy certain games more than when you grow older. I can remember playing and loving a bunch of pretty terrible MMOs myself, but I didn't necessarily spend time on them because they were objectively good games.

    • >Somehow I feel like you will quickly abandon your loyalty and either leave or stop playing and just complain for this to be changed.

    If you're even too lazy to come up with a reason for an argument like this and instead just validate it with your gut feeling, don't bother posting it.

    • >It was fun when I was around 11-13, but after that it became too easy and idiotic.

    I suppose this is an observation, but you state it like an argument. If it was so easy and idiotic, why didn't you participate in the CoD4 Promod competitive scene? It was about as big as the CS scene back then, and many players from the CoD4 Promod scene are still active and successful in other competitive games (like CS!) today. You could've made your way to stardom, you pro!

    • >it's too casual and noob friendly

    I don't agree at all, as stated above. I won't go into statements of this kind for the rest of my response.

    • >because there are noob-friendly OP guns like AR57

    People might agree that it's noob friendly, but I don't see it being OP at all, and I don't know a single good player who only runs around with SMGs like the AR57.

    • >prone spam allows the noobs to survive most encounters

    I've never seen a single person who didn't put themselves at a disadvantage when proning. It's slow and blocks you from firing while going prone. I will agree that proning can suck as a mechanic, but not for these reasons.

    • >no HP meter and HP regen means that as soon as the noob survives the encounter, they HP fills up in a couple of seconds and they continue to PWN around

    I don't see how HP regen favors newbies in any way more than good players, considering that both can benefit from the regeneration.

    • >only tryhards play them and it's really tiring experience to keep trying to be good and yet play the same games from 20 years ago

    Now you're even admitting that there can be a benefit in motivating newbies to play the game. But hey, I suppose that's only true when you're the one getting rekt. Who would've thought that you'd disagree with yourself? Before you start angrily attacking a strawman: This doesn't mean that I believe that Ironsight is noob friendly or should be.

    • >because snipers in Ironsigth just run around the map and quickscope

    The Blaser tags lots and the DSR has a scope time that is too long to survive a spontanous encounter. Additionally you'll die if you encounter more than a single player at a dangerous range. Quickscoping isn't that terribly effective.

    • >There is literally no difference whether you use AR or SMG

    Except for, you know, range, the major attribute that is supposed to partition the guns into these two classes.

    • >There is no point in being competitive in the only serious mode - Search & Destroy , because of the HP regen.

    Wow, I really wonder how people managed to create a thriving competitive scene in Promod with HP regen that was even stronger than in Ironsight!

    • >5 seconds later, he is at 100% HP

    Regen isn't nearly that strong. It's no coincidence that K/Ds in Ironsight are on average way lower than in CoD - this is partially because of regen.

    • >In a normal shooter with competitive scene and a large following there is 100 HP and if you're left on 5 HP, that's it, you can't heal up, you're supposed to try and make-do with that.

    This is literally only true for CS. Simple counter-examples to this are (were) Quake, Promod or Overwatch.

    • >because you can't play anything else

    Wow, big assumption there buddy. The only one who's looking like he can't play anything else is you - because you're disregarding any mechanic that isn't in CS or one of the shitty Korea CS clones that you played.

    • >there are few useful weapons and recoil patterns and grenade spots are very easy to learn, after that the game becomes boring too.

    Should've started making bank in the competitive scene, you pro! Your case of dunning-kruger is unbelievable.

    • >The real challenge in an FPS game is when you start, you get your behind pounded for about 1000 hours before you start getting good, and a good game like this will keep you interested and wanting to play, not discourage you.

    You literally just admitted earlier that you got pounded in Quake and decided to quit because of that. What a bunch of contradictory nonsense.

    • >because this type of gameplay gets easily boring, there is no real punishment, when you die in TDM, you don't have to wait 3, 5, 7 seconds to respawn, you respawn instantly

    Oh my, what a terrible issue. More punishment implies more fun and less boring, got it. I can only imagine how much having to wait 7 seconds like in any other Korea fps will add to the gameplay. Maybe if your daddy had punished you by smacking you every time you post dumb stuff on the forums you wouldn't do that anymore either - but I can only wish.


    As a final note, I won't reply to any further posts of yours. Explaining to people like you that their arguments are full of fallacies and their observations don't represent the general population and bend reality to support their argument is only constructive as to convince readers that your post is nonsense. Any further interactions are a waste of time, because you don't invest enough time into thinking about your arguments to make it worthwhile. I suggest that you do the same: Quit the game and the forums and stop wasting your own and everyone else's time.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by sqroot ().

  • @Irony_Sigh Whoah there, where to even start. Putting aside your myriad of subjective opinions, listen kiddo, you need to understand that this game is not CSGO - that is a complete different fps sub-genre. Call of duty is in itself it's own sub-genre as it's the type of gameplay you can only get in cod and nowhere else, until ironsight that is. Now what ironsight is trying to replicate is the mechanics and gameplay of the golden age of cods, back when cod was actually fresh and fun, back when you didn't have specialists with actual game breaking skills*, back when maps were actually good. That's why even though ironsight has very little content and technical issues like the bad netcode, we do keep coming back because of the gameplay. (Also ironsight is the first and only f2p on the market with this high production value, it feels and plays like a real triple-a cod and that is a testament to it's quality, I mean just look at all the awful cod clones in the past like skill 2)


    And to be honest all these ar57 complaints, not a lot of people even use ar57 anymore. Besides, most good players with common sense know not to stay in the effective range of smgs where they'd be outgunned. And the whole ar57 is too op argument you can apply to most smgs anyways. They are called SMGS for a reason. The only reason ironsight's playerbase falters is solely because of technical issues and lack of content + the very slow update rollouts but that'll soon change after the netcode patch. Unlike cods where they bring one out every year there won't be an ironsight 2 coming out next year you know? And they'll support it for a long time. Also, cod has clearly lost it's roots and is trying to go after rainbow six seige (specialists) and pubg in pursuit of monkey-making trends. So that's why to all those people who loved the old cod gameplay, and the old style of maps compared to the square corridor shooters it has become nowadays, ironsight is our salvation and we enjoy it for what it is.


    As others have already pointed out, this game just isn't for you. I mean hey if you're such a big fan of the csgo gameplay - now that CSGO is free to play, why not go play that instead? Or if you fancy koreon csgo clones like a.v.a. there's black squad too, hell there is even a.v.a. re-release called a.v.a. dog tag if you fancied the masochistic 2-3 years of sucking at it so much. If you're so inclined to have that 'csgo' experience go play those games.


    *like the almost 100% noscope accuracy koshka which lets people run around the map and one shot people like smgs compared to which the whole ar57 is too op argument is nothing or let's say how you mention snipers are too op and people run and gun with them, but you forget cod has much faster ads time compared to ironsight and this is a mechanic. It's easy to look at a few good sniping gameplay and go it's so op and no skill gun and all but you try it yourself and try to run and gun with a sniper and I guarantee you'll die 10 feet away from spawn. Sniping overall has the highest skill gap as you actually need decent aim to hit your shots in the first place.

  • the problem isnt the players well not because them but the game that could if not is living in the shadows of well developed games. Why would i play ironsight for hipfire meta csgo is only 10$ with better hipfiring balance? Why would i play ironsight for ads meta when cod is way better in all mechanics? It is the same reason why u should buy a car instead of buying a bike. If the gameplay is always casual there will be no pros playing it or even them sponsoring it. I dont want **** deaths caused by grenades that has 7.5 blast radius in a confined space due to the map being small or because the enemy used soft point bullets to throw my aim off while i was aiming at the head. Call of duty has paved the road on what is balanced and sucessful across its titles for ironsight and not to say ironsight should be like cod (because this also wont work in the market) but to have its own niche (like GiTS with character abilties) AND to have cod mechanics and balances.


    You said mw2 but look at mw3. The dev learned the problem. No more one man army, commando, no more explosive refills, ump45 nerf and even after mw3. Mw2 was the time when devs were exploring ideas because mw1 was sucessful in mmo fps. They wanted to expand mmo gameplay so they added “cool” ideas. And no mw2 is not the most sucessful now. It is bo2 which uses mw2 ideas and polished it. Players liked it because the memes of infinite explosive spams etc not because it is fun being killed by them. The fact that you don’t analyze the whole 3 years of the mw series and using mw2 to prove why ironsight could succeed is sad.


    Why is League better than dota? It is because the devs has dota mechanics and maybe the balances AND its own niche that differs. Ironsight can be like that.


    Pros do use dropshot AND jumpshots and in fact every mechanics available to them are used. That is what make them pros. It will not be and is not determined by a victory in a firefight using SOFT POINT BULLETS

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  • First of all, to address "Living in the Shadow of well developed games." Its no secret that Ironsight is not a Triple A title to begin with. CoD has already built a good foundation for Ironsight to leverage off of so I don't see any reason why that's wrong for the developers to copy and recreate their own game based off of it. Many games are like this! I can easily say AVA and Black Squad are living in the shadows of big daddy Counter Strike.

    "hipfire meta," Like others mentioned before, Ironsight shouldn't be compared to CS because the gameplay is totally different. I have over 600 hrs in CSGO and got to DMG rank so I can at least can recognize the major differences in gameplay. Not as easy as comparing hipfire mechanics. Same can be said about new CoD games. Just because they both have ADS with weapons doesn't make the rest of the game comparable. You wanted character abilities and CoD gameplay like GITS right? Then go check out BO4 because it has both. Leave Ironsight for the rest of us to enjoy.


    "If the gameplay is always casual..." I never said or even want Ironsight to be totally casual. (I am a competitive player myself) What I am saying is that there is already a skill gap between pros and noobs. Judging from your profile I am assuming you are a great sniper yourself. My grandma can't pick up a DSR and run around and quickscope. It took me years to learn how to snipe and quick scope properly so you already know about the skill gap yourself. Its already harder in this game too because there is ADS time and hip sway.

    I've played that entire era of Call of Duty from CoD4 to BO2. I wanted to show how Irony_Sigh 's complaints about the game was nothing compared to MW2's broken mechanics, but people still loved that game. BO2 was definitely the most balanced CoD game in that era that's why I commend Ironsight for copying the the most polished CoD game of that generation (something we can both agree on i hope).


    Hipfire spread, grenades, and bullet types can be addressed in future patches. Nerfing them will not dramatically change the gameplay. What I am against is Irony_Sigh 's suggestions to completely overhaul the gameplay as a whole and turn it to his favourite childhood games of 1999.

  • When did i say ironsight should have gits character abilities? Its funny how u r trying to change what i said to support your claim when literally everyone knows ironsight will not survive in the market with their current gameplay and even a gameplay close to cod. So dont try to avoid that that has to change in order for the game to survive.


    Ava is dying slowly. Black squad isnt dying yet. Gits died. Do you see the trend here? This is a big do or die for these devs (not naming race) to prove that they can make a good fps not just america. There is potential for this game to succeed.


    Now tell me what is different from cod in terms of gameplay? I ads in mid range fights. I hipfire at corners and close range. I have perks that “apparently” give me advantages. I have the contribution system which gives me drones to use. I can spam nades every life which has 1m bigger blast radius than cod in a smaller map with even more confined space. Faster pace does not make it different than cod.


    The reason why this game has hipfire meta label attached is due to its small maps and close quarters. The only way to make hipfire balanced to in terms of cod gameplay is changing the dispersion of hipfiring to even more less of the distance (ie 5m at .4 dispersion to 2m at .4 dispersion). It is pretty much scaling everything from effective firing range of guns to health regen. But because of the meta no one knows what the game is supposed to be.


    And *** am i telling devs how to make their game.


    Anyways its good that u cleared what u said before

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    The post was edited 1 time, last by Misfire ().

  • people who want to play some super realistic hardcore fps wont be playing Ironsight, they will be playing Insurgency Sandstorm/ CS GO or whatever.


    and Im fairly confident this game never was set out to be a realistic shooter either.





    Gotta love how people act like the steam community is the Spawn of Satan almost which ruins games, no exception.



    But guess what? good games gets praised and bad games get criticised, its not the steam users fault if a game isnt up to scratch.



    Also at this current state, this game NEEDS exposure. Otherwise have fun playing with less and less people till the game dies completely and that will be the end of it.



    I dont think the balance is the biggest problem here other than the lack of content and netcode and other issues.

  • Smh some people here wants ironsight to become like csgo...I mean csgo is free now so just go play that if you want hipfire meta gameplay.


    I 100% agree with tatsu on the game not having any problems with balancing and even if there is those are simply nitpicks and those can and will be addressed over time but misfire, you're forgetting one thing cod mainly targets the console demographic but ironsight is aimed at the pc demographic, so no it won't live under the shadow of cod as it's 60 bucks and not everyone's gonna spend that much (+ the whole point I mentioned regarding cod losing its roots with blackout and specialists to follow suit on the success of rainbow six and this one's subjective but really poor map design that just feel boxy but in ironsight the maps are good and have dynamic elements like dam's crane or the platforms to roof for example).


    You have to understand there has never been a free to play game before that has such a high production value, I mean look at the gun models, animations, the maps, and even the sound design it's really nutty and the game feels good to play. I think that's what matters the most. All the other f2p fps games, even the csgo clones give off this cheap 'knockoff' vibe that ironsight doesn't have.


    And on top of that there's no barrier of entry unlike cod so the whole free to play demographic can jump onto the bandwagon. As tatsu already said, the only thing ironsight needs is to fix that netcode as soon as possible or leave it aside to give us more content because if the game dies it'd solely be because of lack of content and oh, advertising. I mean just releasing on steam ain't gonna magically bring in thousands of players. They gotta pay those streamers and reach out to 'fps centric' youtubers and especially reviewers to put this game out there on the map. And from all those who'll try it out, those who'll decide to stay will stay for the gameplay. I know I did. Anyways, that's all I gotta say and I'll stop replying as otherwise these arguments are going to keep going on like a game of ping pong.


    TL;DR - if you want hardcore shooters and hipfire meta, go play csgo it's free now. If you loved the olden cods upto bo2, you'll stay for the gameplay.

  • Well going through steam, the only other good f2p that has good production value is warface but even then the movement system in that is still janky and not as fluid as ironsight, the rest are blacksquad, a.v.a. dog tag, combat arms reloaded...all of which screams f2p and the weapon models, maps, the animations all have this cheap knockoff feel to them. So yes I believe ironsight is the first to have almost triple-a level production quality. Please do give some examples if there's any other you think that has as good production values like ironsight. I mean that's the only thing that sets ironsight apart from all the other f2p fps games.

  • You named one in your post: CS:GO.

    There was also Dirty Bomb, TF2, there's Fortnite, and probably a whole bunch of FPS games I missed.

    Additionally there's loads of non-FPS games with better production quality: dota 2 and league of legends to name a few.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by sqroot ().

  • But cod is always on pc. So still the same reason why would i play ironsight when i can play cod with even better mechanics?

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  • You named one in your post: CS:GO.

    There was also Dirty Bomb, TF2, there's Fortnite, and probably a whole bunch of FPS games I missed.

    Additionally there's loads of non-FPS games with better production quality: dota 2 and league of legends to name a few.



    erm TF2 is no shape or form in the same league as call of duty or any other modern military shooter, neither is Fortnite. Team Fortress 2 has always been a cartoony like light hearted fps game with distinctive character and classes, call of duty isnt, neither is Fortnite.


    also im not sure how is it relevant whether or not non fps games have better production quality, its like me saying a Star Wars movie has better production quality than Ironsight: there is ZERO connection or relevance to these two things! Different engine, different structure, different development teams, etc.



    You are kinda comparing oranges to apples, I feel




    Because you dont feel like dealing with constant nickle and diming, splitting of playerbase and even worse tickrate servers?


    dunno about you but for me Call of Duty WW2 really broke the camels back as far as call of duty games goes and them having zero regards or fucks to give about what the playerbase wants and just trying to jump on the BR train as well. But dont let me hold you back, if you wanna play call of duty, play call of duty.


    One costs 60 dollar and this one doesnt. Im not saying people at Aeria Games/ Wiple are saints themselves but as far as Im concerned, I would rather give them my cash than to fill Activisions pocket ever again.

  • I agree with tatsu again and besides tf2 is an objective based hero shooter as well and fortnite isn't even an fps, it's an tps battle royale which is a completely different genre. But the fact that nobody would be able to tell it is an indie game if you slapped on a 'call of duty online' label on ironsight and released it as such, speaks volumes for the quality of ironsight. There really hasn't been f2p games that have this high production values before.


    Also mifire,once again, the demographics for cod and ironsight are very different. Simply because cod costs 60 bucks while ironsight doesn't. So it allows ironsight to be be accessible to the free to play market as well, which cod can't tap into. Meaning even those broke college students can just jump into ironsight and have a good time free of cost.


    But as I've mentioned before, there is one other reason one might look to play ironsight over cod that is simply because cod has become really different with specialists and specialist equipment, which is more akin to rainbow six siege + cod has lost the magic of it's old map design, instead now favouring mindless the run 'n gun shooting which is much, much more casual. So yes the other reason someone might look into ironsight over cod is it's fair balance, as there are no specialists so everyone is on an equal playing field from the start and the only difference is preference of loadout which makes for much fairer competitive play as well.


    Alas, I rest my case, I shall reply no more. Spectre out.

  • You don't even know what nostalgia is. Nostalgia, like you describe it is something that happened to you in the past.

    WRONG.


    Nostalgia is when you look back on events in the past.

    Afffected by nostalgia means you remember things in the past and remember them better than they were. This isn't even the case of what I meant.

    I don't have to waste my time on you if you can't grasp a concept that simple around your head.

    Talking about big words like fallacies.. look at you... I bet you don't know what that word means either. xD


    At the end of the day, if the game remains like this it will slowly melt away into nothing. Defend it however you want, but netcode, bugfixes and balances won't help it stand up on its feet. It will only fix the "unintended" issues and the glaring issue will remain into focus - the game has nothing going for itself and then people will leave under the pretext that it's boring and nothing really happens.

    Signing out, no use arguing with children that learned big words and can't even look beyond their nose.

    It will be funny to watch this game crash and burn thanks to thickheaded loudmouths. If I'm by any chance wrong, I will come back one last time and admit that I was wrong about the game and everything, but I highly doubt that will ever happen.

  • There really hasn't been f2p games that have this high production values before.

    The argument was about free games in general, which I replied to, not "games like Call of Duty". After all, you named CS:GO clones as counter-examples as well. That being said, in my list of examples, Dirty Bomb and CS:GO are probably the closest, which you chose to ignore.


    Irony_Sigh

    I considered letting you get the last word, but since you argue that you'd take the death of Ironsight as a validation for your position, I'll give it another stab.

    I agree that the game could die - maybe soon and possibly even because it gets repetitive - but not because it isn't a CS:GO clone or very newbie-friendly, as you argue. If I were you, I wouldn't feel confirmed when the game dies - after all, that would be a fallacy ;)

    Your point about "Nostalgia" illustrates two things:

    1. That, once again, you're willing to bend reality to support your argument. I won't even go into detail as to why what you said is stupid, you can easily open Merriam-Webster yourself and do that. Here's an explanation of my point so that even people with your reading comprehension skills can understand it: [You looking back so fondly on these games] might very well be for nostalgic reasons - [<Explanation as to why these games invoke nostalgia in the first place to disprove the argument that you liking the game back then proves that the game had to be good>]
    2. That your argument is so weak that you're willingly ignoring the other arguments and instead attack the use of a single word - not even the statement it was used in!

    Now, go ahead and feel smug about being a particularly ignorant case of dunning-kruger with terrible reading comprehension, but don't expect people that don't have the mental capacity of a child to take you seriously.

  • Im not saying todays gen call of duty. In saying cod in general. In fact modern warfare 4 has been rumored for this year. So pls dont be a smart with me

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  • and Im saying that call of duty games in general were known to be overpriced, quickly abandoned a year after for a new call of duty and so on.


    Im just stating facts here, sorry if it bothers you so much, being smug about it doesnt magically reinforces your point.

  • Im not saying todays gen call of duty. In saying cod in general. In fact modern warfare 4 has been rumored for this year. So pls dont be a smart with me


    and Im saying that call of duty games in general were known to be overpriced, quickly abandoned a year after for a new call of duty and so on.


    Im just stating facts here, sorry if it bothers you so much, being smug about it doesnt magically reinforces your point.

    But i would def pay for it because everythin is better than ironsight. If u had the money would u buy a cod game instead?

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