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  • If you are honestly getting owned by noobs just because they had an AR57 and hit the deck then I don't think the game's mechanics are the issue.


    No matter, the army of invincible belly-flopping SMG noobs seems to be avoiding the servers I play on... for now.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by OhEmGee ().

  • Irony_Sigh

    Man, that's a lot of text to inflate some very weak arguments that essentially boil down to "I don't like it but I'll pretend that there's some objective reason why noobs easily win encounters".

    The observation that newbies perform as well as good players is nonsense - and your entire argument is based on it. Not a single match I've played in this game reflects that observation; good players consistently pubstomp almost every match.

    Even the arguments in your text that aren't observations are often nonsense with many counter-examples that you could easily come up with yourself. Honestly, I feel insulted that you would want people to read all that nonsense while having spent so little time thinking about your own arguments.


    But I'll go ahead and bite. Here's some quick bullet points to get you started:


    • >That's because I was addicted to the game and I didn't mind starting over if it meant playing the game, because it was simply THAT good.

    This is a fallacy. It might very well be for nostalgic reasons - when you're younger you tend to enjoy certain games more than when you grow older. I can remember playing and loving a bunch of pretty terrible MMOs myself, but I didn't necessarily spend time on them because they were objectively good games.

    • >Somehow I feel like you will quickly abandon your loyalty and either leave or stop playing and just complain for this to be changed.

    If you're even too lazy to come up with a reason for an argument like this and instead just validate it with your gut feeling, don't bother posting it.

    • >It was fun when I was around 11-13, but after that it became too easy and idiotic.

    I suppose this is an observation, but you state it like an argument. If it was so easy and idiotic, why didn't you participate in the CoD4 Promod competitive scene? It was about as big as the CS scene back then, and many players from the CoD4 Promod scene are still active and successful in other competitive games (like CS!) today. You could've made your way to stardom, you pro!

    • >it's too casual and noob friendly

    I don't agree at all, as stated above. I won't go into statements of this kind for the rest of my response.

    • >because there are noob-friendly OP guns like AR57

    People might agree that it's noob friendly, but I don't see it being OP at all, and I don't know a single good player who only runs around with SMGs like the AR57.

    • >prone spam allows the noobs to survive most encounters

    I've never seen a single person who didn't put themselves at a disadvantage when proning. It's slow and blocks you from firing while going prone. I will agree that proning can suck as a mechanic, but not for these reasons.

    • >no HP meter and HP regen means that as soon as the noob survives the encounter, they HP fills up in a couple of seconds and they continue to PWN around

    I don't see how HP regen favors newbies in any way more than good players, considering that both can benefit from the regeneration.

    • >only tryhards play them and it's really tiring experience to keep trying to be good and yet play the same games from 20 years ago

    Now you're even admitting that there can be a benefit in motivating newbies to play the game. But hey, I suppose that's only true when you're the one getting rekt. Who would've thought that you'd disagree with yourself? Before you start angrily attacking a strawman: This doesn't mean that I believe that Ironsight is noob friendly or should be.

    • >because snipers in Ironsigth just run around the map and quickscope

    The Blaser tags lots and the DSR has a scope time that is too long to survive a spontanous encounter. Additionally you'll die if you encounter more than a single player at a dangerous range. Quickscoping isn't that terribly effective.

    • >There is literally no difference whether you use AR or SMG

    Except for, you know, range, the major attribute that is supposed to partition the guns into these two classes.

    • >There is no point in being competitive in the only serious mode - Search & Destroy , because of the HP regen.

    Wow, I really wonder how people managed to create a thriving competitive scene in Promod with HP regen that was even stronger than in Ironsight!

    • >5 seconds later, he is at 100% HP

    Regen isn't nearly that strong. It's no coincidence that K/Ds in Ironsight are on average way lower than in CoD - this is partially because of regen.

    • >In a normal shooter with competitive scene and a large following there is 100 HP and if you're left on 5 HP, that's it, you can't heal up, you're supposed to try and make-do with that.

    This is literally only true for CS. Simple counter-examples to this are (were) Quake, Promod or Overwatch.

    • >because you can't play anything else

    Wow, big assumption there buddy. The only one who's looking like he can't play anything else is you - because you're disregarding any mechanic that isn't in CS or one of the shitty Korea CS clones that you played.

    • >there are few useful weapons and recoil patterns and grenade spots are very easy to learn, after that the game becomes boring too.

    Should've started making bank in the competitive scene, you pro! Your case of dunning-kruger is unbelievable.

    • >The real challenge in an FPS game is when you start, you get your behind pounded for about 1000 hours before you start getting good, and a good game like this will keep you interested and wanting to play, not discourage you.

    You literally just admitted earlier that you got pounded in Quake and decided to quit because of that. What a bunch of contradictory nonsense.

    • >because this type of gameplay gets easily boring, there is no real punishment, when you die in TDM, you don't have to wait 3, 5, 7 seconds to respawn, you respawn instantly

    Oh my, what a terrible issue. More punishment implies more fun and less boring, got it. I can only imagine how much having to wait 7 seconds like in any other Korea fps will add to the gameplay. Maybe if your daddy had punished you by smacking you every time you post dumb stuff on the forums you wouldn't do that anymore either - but I can only wish.


    As a final note, I won't reply to any further posts of yours. Explaining to people like you that their arguments are full of fallacies and their observations don't represent the general population and bend reality to support their argument is only constructive as to convince readers that your post is nonsense. Any further interactions are a waste of time, because you don't invest enough time into thinking about your arguments to make it worthwhile. I suggest that you do the same: Quit the game and the forums and stop wasting your own and everyone else's time.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by sqroot ().

  • @Irony_Sigh Whoah there, where to even start. Putting aside your myriad of subjective opinions, listen kiddo, you need to understand that this game is not CSGO - that is a complete different fps sub-genre. Call of duty is in itself it's own sub-genre as it's the type of gameplay you can only get in cod and nowhere else, until ironsight that is. Now what ironsight is trying to replicate is the mechanics and gameplay of the golden age of cods, back when cod was actually fresh and fun, back when you didn't have specialists with actual game breaking skills*, back when maps were actually good. That's why even though ironsight has very little content and technical issues like the bad netcode, we do keep coming back because of the gameplay. (Also ironsight is the first and only f2p on the market with this high production value, it feels and plays like a real triple-a cod and that is a testament to it's quality, I mean just look at all the awful cod clones in the past like skill 2)


    And to be honest all these ar57 complaints, not a lot of people even use ar57 anymore. Besides, most good players with common sense know not to stay in the effective range of smgs where they'd be outgunned. And the whole ar57 is too op argument you can apply to most smgs anyways. They are called SMGS for a reason. The only reason ironsight's playerbase falters is solely because of technical issues and lack of content + the very slow update rollouts but that'll soon change after the netcode patch. Unlike cods where they bring one out every year there won't be an ironsight 2 coming out next year you know? And they'll support it for a long time. Also, cod has clearly lost it's roots and is trying to go after rainbow six seige (specialists) and pubg in pursuit of monkey-making trends. So that's why to all those people who loved the old cod gameplay, and the old style of maps compared to the square corridor shooters it has become nowadays, ironsight is our salvation and we enjoy it for what it is.


    As others have already pointed out, this game just isn't for you. I mean hey if you're such a big fan of the csgo gameplay - now that CSGO is free to play, why not go play that instead? Or if you fancy koreon csgo clones like a.v.a. there's black squad too, hell there is even a.v.a. re-release called a.v.a. dog tag if you fancied the masochistic 2-3 years of sucking at it so much. If you're so inclined to have that 'csgo' experience go play those games.


    *like the almost 100% noscope accuracy koshka which lets people run around the map and one shot people like smgs compared to which the whole ar57 is too op argument is nothing or let's say how you mention snipers are too op and people run and gun with them, but you forget cod has much faster ads time compared to ironsight and this is a mechanic. It's easy to look at a few good sniping gameplay and go it's so op and no skill gun and all but you try it yourself and try to run and gun with a sniper and I guarantee you'll die 10 feet away from spawn. Sniping overall has the highest skill gap as you actually need decent aim to hit your shots in the first place.

  • the problem isnt the players well not because them but the game that could if not is living in the shadows of well developed games. Why would i play ironsight for hipfire meta csgo is only 10$ with better hipfiring balance? Why would i play ironsight for ads meta when cod is way better in all mechanics? It is the same reason why u should buy a car instead of buying a bike. If the gameplay is always casual there will be no pros playing it or even them sponsoring it. I dont want **** deaths caused by grenades that has 7.5 blast radius in a confined space due to the map being small or because the enemy used soft point bullets to throw my aim off while i was aiming at the head. Call of duty has paved the road on what is balanced and sucessful across its titles for ironsight and not to say ironsight should be like cod (because this also wont work in the market) but to have its own niche (like GiTS with character abilties) AND to have cod mechanics and balances.


    You said mw2 but look at mw3. The dev learned the problem. No more one man army, commando, no more explosive refills, ump45 nerf and even after mw3. Mw2 was the time when devs were exploring ideas because mw1 was sucessful in mmo fps. They wanted to expand mmo gameplay so they added “cool” ideas. And no mw2 is not the most sucessful now. It is bo2 which uses mw2 ideas and polished it. Players liked it because the memes of infinite explosive spams etc not because it is fun being killed by them. The fact that you don’t analyze the whole 3 years of the mw series and using mw2 to prove why ironsight could succeed is sad.


    Why is League better than dota? It is because the devs has dota mechanics and maybe the balances AND its own niche that differs. Ironsight can be like that.


    Pros do use dropshot AND jumpshots and in fact every mechanics available to them are used. That is what make them pros. It will not be and is not determined by a victory in a firefight using SOFT POINT BULLETS

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  • First of all, to address "Living in the Shadow of well developed games." Its no secret that Ironsight is not a Triple A title to begin with. CoD has already built a good foundation for Ironsight to leverage off of so I don't see any reason why that's wrong for the developers to copy and recreate their own game based off of it. Many games are like this! I can easily say AVA and Black Squad are living in the shadows of big daddy Counter Strike.

    "hipfire meta," Like others mentioned before, Ironsight shouldn't be compared to CS because the gameplay is totally different. I have over 600 hrs in CSGO and got to DMG rank so I can at least can recognize the major differences in gameplay. Not as easy as comparing hipfire mechanics. Same can be said about new CoD games. Just because they both have ADS with weapons doesn't make the rest of the game comparable. You wanted character abilities and CoD gameplay like GITS right? Then go check out BO4 because it has both. Leave Ironsight for the rest of us to enjoy.


    "If the gameplay is always casual..." I never said or even want Ironsight to be totally casual. (I am a competitive player myself) What I am saying is that there is already a skill gap between pros and noobs. Judging from your profile I am assuming you are a great sniper yourself. My grandma can't pick up a DSR and run around and quickscope. It took me years to learn how to snipe and quick scope properly so you already know about the skill gap yourself. Its already harder in this game too because there is ADS time and hip sway.

    I've played that entire era of Call of Duty from CoD4 to BO2. I wanted to show how Irony_Sigh 's complaints about the game was nothing compared to MW2's broken mechanics, but people still loved that game. BO2 was definitely the most balanced CoD game in that era that's why I commend Ironsight for copying the the most polished CoD game of that generation (something we can both agree on i hope).


    Hipfire spread, grenades, and bullet types can be addressed in future patches. Nerfing them will not dramatically change the gameplay. What I am against is Irony_Sigh 's suggestions to completely overhaul the gameplay as a whole and turn it to his favourite childhood games of 1999.

  • When did i say ironsight should have gits character abilities? Its funny how u r trying to change what i said to support your claim when literally everyone knows ironsight will not survive in the market with their current gameplay and even a gameplay close to cod. So dont try to avoid that that has to change in order for the game to survive.


    Ava is dying slowly. Black squad isnt dying yet. Gits died. Do you see the trend here? This is a big do or die for these devs (not naming race) to prove that they can make a good fps not just america. There is potential for this game to succeed.


    Now tell me what is different from cod in terms of gameplay? I ads in mid range fights. I hipfire at corners and close range. I have perks that “apparently” give me advantages. I have the contribution system which gives me drones to use. I can spam nades every life which has 1m bigger blast radius than cod in a smaller map with even more confined space. Faster pace does not make it different than cod.


    The reason why this game has hipfire meta label attached is due to its small maps and close quarters. The only way to make hipfire balanced to in terms of cod gameplay is changing the dispersion of hipfiring to even more less of the distance (ie 5m at .4 dispersion to 2m at .4 dispersion). It is pretty much scaling everything from effective firing range of guns to health regen. But because of the meta no one knows what the game is supposed to be.


    And *** am i telling devs how to make their game.


    Anyways its good that u cleared what u said before

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    The post was edited 1 time, last by Misfire ().

  • people who want to play some super realistic hardcore fps wont be playing Ironsight, they will be playing Insurgency Sandstorm/ CS GO or whatever.


    and Im fairly confident this game never was set out to be a realistic shooter either.





    Gotta love how people act like the steam community is the Spawn of Satan almost which ruins games, no exception.



    But guess what? good games gets praised and bad games get criticised, its not the steam users fault if a game isnt up to scratch.



    Also at this current state, this game NEEDS exposure. Otherwise have fun playing with less and less people till the game dies completely and that will be the end of it.



    I dont think the balance is the biggest problem here other than the lack of content and netcode and other issues.

  • Smh some people here wants ironsight to become like csgo...I mean csgo is free now so just go play that if you want hipfire meta gameplay.


    I 100% agree with tatsu on the game not having any problems with balancing and even if there is those are simply nitpicks and those can and will be addressed over time but misfire, you're forgetting one thing cod mainly targets the console demographic but ironsight is aimed at the pc demographic, so no it won't live under the shadow of cod as it's 60 bucks and not everyone's gonna spend that much (+ the whole point I mentioned regarding cod losing its roots with blackout and specialists to follow suit on the success of rainbow six and this one's subjective but really poor map design that just feel boxy but in ironsight the maps are good and have dynamic elements like dam's crane or the platforms to roof for example).


    You have to understand there has never been a free to play game before that has such a high production value, I mean look at the gun models, animations, the maps, and even the sound design it's really nutty and the game feels good to play. I think that's what matters the most. All the other f2p fps games, even the csgo clones give off this cheap 'knockoff' vibe that ironsight doesn't have.


    And on top of that there's no barrier of entry unlike cod so the whole free to play demographic can jump onto the bandwagon. As tatsu already said, the only thing ironsight needs is to fix that netcode as soon as possible or leave it aside to give us more content because if the game dies it'd solely be because of lack of content and oh, advertising. I mean just releasing on steam ain't gonna magically bring in thousands of players. They gotta pay those streamers and reach out to 'fps centric' youtubers and especially reviewers to put this game out there on the map. And from all those who'll try it out, those who'll decide to stay will stay for the gameplay. I know I did. Anyways, that's all I gotta say and I'll stop replying as otherwise these arguments are going to keep going on like a game of ping pong.


    TL;DR - if you want hardcore shooters and hipfire meta, go play csgo it's free now. If you loved the olden cods upto bo2, you'll stay for the gameplay.

  • Well going through steam, the only other good f2p that has good production value is warface but even then the movement system in that is still janky and not as fluid as ironsight, the rest are blacksquad, a.v.a. dog tag, combat arms reloaded...all of which screams f2p and the weapon models, maps, the animations all have this cheap knockoff feel to them. So yes I believe ironsight is the first to have almost triple-a level production quality. Please do give some examples if there's any other you think that has as good production values like ironsight. I mean that's the only thing that sets ironsight apart from all the other f2p fps games.

  • You named one in your post: CS:GO.

    There was also Dirty Bomb, TF2, there's Fortnite, and probably a whole bunch of FPS games I missed.

    Additionally there's loads of non-FPS games with better production quality: dota 2 and league of legends to name a few.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by sqroot ().

  • But cod is always on pc. So still the same reason why would i play ironsight when i can play cod with even better mechanics?

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  • You named one in your post: CS:GO.

    There was also Dirty Bomb, TF2, there's Fortnite, and probably a whole bunch of FPS games I missed.

    Additionally there's loads of non-FPS games with better production quality: dota 2 and league of legends to name a few.



    erm TF2 is no shape or form in the same league as call of duty or any other modern military shooter, neither is Fortnite. Team Fortress 2 has always been a cartoony like light hearted fps game with distinctive character and classes, call of duty isnt, neither is Fortnite.


    also im not sure how is it relevant whether or not non fps games have better production quality, its like me saying a Star Wars movie has better production quality than Ironsight: there is ZERO connection or relevance to these two things! Different engine, different structure, different development teams, etc.



    You are kinda comparing oranges to apples, I feel




    Because you dont feel like dealing with constant nickle and diming, splitting of playerbase and even worse tickrate servers?


    dunno about you but for me Call of Duty WW2 really broke the camels back as far as call of duty games goes and them having zero regards or fucks to give about what the playerbase wants and just trying to jump on the BR train as well. But dont let me hold you back, if you wanna play call of duty, play call of duty.


    One costs 60 dollar and this one doesnt. Im not saying people at Aeria Games/ Wiple are saints themselves but as far as Im concerned, I would rather give them my cash than to fill Activisions pocket ever again.

  • I agree with tatsu again and besides tf2 is an objective based hero shooter as well and fortnite isn't even an fps, it's an tps battle royale which is a completely different genre. But the fact that nobody would be able to tell it is an indie game if you slapped on a 'call of duty online' label on ironsight and released it as such, speaks volumes for the quality of ironsight. There really hasn't been f2p games that have this high production values before.


    Also mifire,once again, the demographics for cod and ironsight are very different. Simply because cod costs 60 bucks while ironsight doesn't. So it allows ironsight to be be accessible to the free to play market as well, which cod can't tap into. Meaning even those broke college students can just jump into ironsight and have a good time free of cost.


    But as I've mentioned before, there is one other reason one might look to play ironsight over cod that is simply because cod has become really different with specialists and specialist equipment, which is more akin to rainbow six siege + cod has lost the magic of it's old map design, instead now favouring mindless the run 'n gun shooting which is much, much more casual. So yes the other reason someone might look into ironsight over cod is it's fair balance, as there are no specialists so everyone is on an equal playing field from the start and the only difference is preference of loadout which makes for much fairer competitive play as well.


    Alas, I rest my case, I shall reply no more. Spectre out.

  • You don't even know what nostalgia is. Nostalgia, like you describe it is something that happened to you in the past.

    WRONG.


    Nostalgia is when you look back on events in the past.

    Afffected by nostalgia means you remember things in the past and remember them better than they were. This isn't even the case of what I meant.

    I don't have to waste my time on you if you can't grasp a concept that simple around your head.

    Talking about big words like fallacies.. look at you... I bet you don't know what that word means either. xD


    At the end of the day, if the game remains like this it will slowly melt away into nothing. Defend it however you want, but netcode, bugfixes and balances won't help it stand up on its feet. It will only fix the "unintended" issues and the glaring issue will remain into focus - the game has nothing going for itself and then people will leave under the pretext that it's boring and nothing really happens.

    Signing out, no use arguing with children that learned big words and can't even look beyond their nose.

    It will be funny to watch this game crash and burn thanks to thickheaded loudmouths. If I'm by any chance wrong, I will come back one last time and admit that I was wrong about the game and everything, but I highly doubt that will ever happen.

  • There really hasn't been f2p games that have this high production values before.

    The argument was about free games in general, which I replied to, not "games like Call of Duty". After all, you named CS:GO clones as counter-examples as well. That being said, in my list of examples, Dirty Bomb and CS:GO are probably the closest, which you chose to ignore.


    Irony_Sigh

    I considered letting you get the last word, but since you argue that you'd take the death of Ironsight as a validation for your position, I'll give it another stab.

    I agree that the game could die - maybe soon and possibly even because it gets repetitive - but not because it isn't a CS:GO clone or very newbie-friendly, as you argue. If I were you, I wouldn't feel confirmed when the game dies - after all, that would be a fallacy ;)

    Your point about "Nostalgia" illustrates two things:

    1. That, once again, you're willing to bend reality to support your argument. I won't even go into detail as to why what you said is stupid, you can easily open Merriam-Webster yourself and do that. Here's an explanation of my point so that even people with your reading comprehension skills can understand it: [You looking back so fondly on these games] might very well be for nostalgic reasons - [<Explanation as to why these games invoke nostalgia in the first place to disprove the argument that you liking the game back then proves that the game had to be good>]
    2. That your argument is so weak that you're willingly ignoring the other arguments and instead attack the use of a single word - not even the statement it was used in!

    Now, go ahead and feel smug about being a particularly ignorant case of dunning-kruger with terrible reading comprehension, but don't expect people that don't have the mental capacity of a child to take you seriously.

  • Im not saying todays gen call of duty. In saying cod in general. In fact modern warfare 4 has been rumored for this year. So pls dont be a smart with me

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  • and Im saying that call of duty games in general were known to be overpriced, quickly abandoned a year after for a new call of duty and so on.


    Im just stating facts here, sorry if it bothers you so much, being smug about it doesnt magically reinforces your point.

  • Im not saying todays gen call of duty. In saying cod in general. In fact modern warfare 4 has been rumored for this year. So pls dont be a smart with me


    and Im saying that call of duty games in general were known to be overpriced, quickly abandoned a year after for a new call of duty and so on.


    Im just stating facts here, sorry if it bothers you so much, being smug about it doesnt magically reinforces your point.

    But i would def pay for it because everythin is better than ironsight. If u had the money would u buy a cod game instead?

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