Assault Rifle Balancing

  • Thank u kayne, very cool. But theres no recoil patterns in this game, everything is random like u stated, U can't take "recoil patterns" into one of the reasons when u immedietly say next sentence sa58 has more "randomness". Scars recoil is easier to manage cuz it shoots slower, doesnt mean someone who can hit his shots with sa58, can't outgun/outaim/outdmg a SCAR. From what I remember sa58 also has higher headshot dmg : ) Both guns even eachother out. If u can't play one of them, its you, not the gun. That's the point of this discussion. Gun isn't inconsistent, it's you who is.


    *what i meant by recoil randomness i meant, it either goes in right or left direction each time u start shooting. U can't call it a pattern since patterns can be learnt.
    **Can't learn something that is random, since learning patterns mean u can tell where your shots will go and how u need to move your mouse to hit all your shots in "same" spot.
    ***All u can do is be ready to counter either left or right ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ which u can get used to, but not learn it

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    The post was edited 2 times, last by matt ().

  • Thank u kayne, very cool. But theres no recoil patterns in this game, everything is random like u stated, U can't take "recoil patterns" into one of the reasons when u immedietly say next sentence sa58 has more "randomness". Scars recoil is easier to manage cuz it shoots slower, doesnt mean someone who can hit his shots with sa58, can't outgun/outaim/outdmg a SCAR. From what I remember sa58 also has higher headshot dmg : ) Both guns even eachother out. If u can't play one of them, its you, not the gun. That's the point of this discussion. Gun isn't inconsistent, it's you who is.


    *what i meant by recoil randomness i meant, it either goes in right or left direction each time u start shooting. U can't call it a pattern since patterns can be learnt.
    **Can't learn something that is random, since learning patterns mean u can tell where your shots will go and how u need to move your mouse to hit all your shots in "same" spot.
    ***All u can do is be ready to counter either left or right ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ which u can get used to, but not learn it

    My wording of calling "randomness" a "pattern" was wrong, I'm sorry. English was not my first language.


    My post was mainly to discuss the SA58 having more randomness in its recoil than the SCAR-H and what "might" make the gun feel inconsistent, and not to "learn" any pattern. I was emphasizing the word "might" because it may or may not be inconsistent, depending on the player. (Yes, I should have mentioned this as well).


    Also, saying that there is no recoil pattern (one that you mean) would be wrong, I think. because there actually is multiple "patterns" in 2 guns I know of. (unless if wiple changed it, for which I'm sorry).


    The K2C has 3 different recoil patterns. Two goes to the right, one goes to the left. Which one you will get however will be random so it doesn't look like there are any patterns. This is extremely difficult to compensate since you don't know which one you'll get. The pattern changes if you use a muzzle brake, I think, although I rarely use the muzzle brake.


    The P90 has a static recoil pattern, with only minor fluctuations (which I believe is in it's pattern set [due to a lack of a better word thats what I'm calling it] )

    It will always go up and to the right.


    I believe other guns have a pattern set they follow, but I didn't test it at that time since I was too lazy to do this for all guns

  • There are still recoil parameters that differ between guns, despite randomness, though.

    SCAR recoil isn't just easier to control because it has less RPM, but also because the parameters result in a recoil that is easier to control. Calling it a pattern would be too generous, but it's not like every gun is using the same probability distribution for recoil.


    The main point that was made about inconsistency was about TTK inconsistency, and there's no denying that you will not always hit the upper torso due to all the aforementioned factors in the game, no matter how consistent your aim is. So in some sense, it is justified to call the SA58 inconsistent.



    Are you sure that each of the K2C patterns is fully deterministic?

  • I always thought higher RoF gun is better if u miss a shot than a lower RoF gun. Compare both a semi auto hipfiring SR to a full auto hipfiring smg and both have the same hipfire accuracy. For sr ur hoping for the one shot but if u miss the smg has a higher chance to kill u in that shot interval. Both can have the same ttk but smg has better shot recovery due to RoF

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  • I always thought higher RoF gun is better if u miss a shot than a lower RoF gun. Compare both a semi auto hipfiring SR to a full auto hipfiring smg and both have the same hipfire accuracy. For sr ur hoping for the one shot but if u miss the smg has a higher chance to kill u in that shot interval. Both can have the same ttk but smg has better shot recovery due to RoF

    Yes, if there is a huge difference in RPM, there's also a huge difference in TTK variation when shots are (completely) missed.

  • RoF is not the only factor between the SA58 and SCAR recoil-wise. There are two types of recoil: Vertical (V-recoil) and Horizontal (H-recoil).

    V-recoil is easier to counteract as it is consistent and can be countered by "pulling down."

    H-recoil is very random a inconsistent due to the gun recoiling in two different directions, left and right. This causes it to be difficult to compensate for, especially at longer ranges.

    The SCAR has a good deal of V-recoil but almost no H-recoil while the SA58 has a fair amount of V-recoil and heavy H-recoil.


    Also the headshot multiplier for the SA58 and SCAR is identical, meaning the SA58 does less headshot damage. In fact, all the multipliers are identical for the two guns.

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  • Are you sure that each of the K2C patterns is fully deterministic?

    Last time I checked, it was. Atm I can't check it now cause of university (I'm in dorm) so I can't tell if wiple changed it later on. But there must be a deterministic pattern. If there wasn't, then it does not explain the P90's recoil always going up and to the right.

  • Are you sure that each of the K2C patterns is fully deterministic?

    Last time I checked, it was. Atm I can't check it now cause of university (I'm in dorm) so I can't tell if wiple changed it later on. But there must be a deterministic pattern. If there wasn't, then it does not explain the P90's recoil always going up and to the right.

    The recoil patterns are definitely not fully deterministic but they are to a certain extent. Each gun seems to have seems to have specific directions in which it will recoil.

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    The only reason Patton called the M1 Garand the "greatest implement of battle ever devised" is because he never met the FN FAL.

    #BuffAK12